ᐅ New construction window lintels on the ground floor installed too low
Created on: 10 Oct 2016 12:05
H
Hausbau2k16
Dear forum members, I am new here and have a question for you. I am not looking for blame, but rather helpful advice if possible.
We are currently in the construction phase—a fixed-price contract for a turnkey single-family house—and our house is already standing. The windows are installed, the electrical work is completed, the external insulation and facade are in place, and the interior plaster on the third floor is also finished.
To note, we are total construction novices and have been following the instructions of the builder and the site manager. We have always contacted them when there were issues we wanted to raise. Some were addressed, others are still open, and some were just dismissed. Now, somehow, no one is smiling anymore...
Over the weekend, together with a professional friend, we took some measurements and, how should I put it politely, were somewhat confused. All window lintels (this concerns two windows on one gable and two windows, one on each side of the front door) on the ground floor are installed nearly 20cm (8 inches) too low. It seems the structural builder took the lintel measurement from the floor slab without considering the floor buildup (screed, underfloor heating, tiles). The construction company has been informed and an on-site inspection is planned. It is undisputed that the (major) defect exists. It is also clear to us that the house will not be “torn down” again. It seems equally clear that the builder must address this construction defect in some way. Since demolition and structural alterations (removing windows, raising lintels, redoing the exterior facade, replastering inside, etc.) are certainly not an option, our view is that only a financial compensation remains. We are aware that we can reduce the final invoice. The question is, how much do you estimate we can withhold or apply as a penalty charge? What does fixing such a construction fault typically cost, and what factor can we apply? We are not aiming to withhold the last dollar; a rough estimate with numbers would be very helpful.
I look forward to your comments and informed answers.
We are currently in the construction phase—a fixed-price contract for a turnkey single-family house—and our house is already standing. The windows are installed, the electrical work is completed, the external insulation and facade are in place, and the interior plaster on the third floor is also finished.
To note, we are total construction novices and have been following the instructions of the builder and the site manager. We have always contacted them when there were issues we wanted to raise. Some were addressed, others are still open, and some were just dismissed. Now, somehow, no one is smiling anymore...
Over the weekend, together with a professional friend, we took some measurements and, how should I put it politely, were somewhat confused. All window lintels (this concerns two windows on one gable and two windows, one on each side of the front door) on the ground floor are installed nearly 20cm (8 inches) too low. It seems the structural builder took the lintel measurement from the floor slab without considering the floor buildup (screed, underfloor heating, tiles). The construction company has been informed and an on-site inspection is planned. It is undisputed that the (major) defect exists. It is also clear to us that the house will not be “torn down” again. It seems equally clear that the builder must address this construction defect in some way. Since demolition and structural alterations (removing windows, raising lintels, redoing the exterior facade, replastering inside, etc.) are certainly not an option, our view is that only a financial compensation remains. We are aware that we can reduce the final invoice. The question is, how much do you estimate we can withhold or apply as a penalty charge? What does fixing such a construction fault typically cost, and what factor can we apply? We are not aiming to withhold the last dollar; a rough estimate with numbers would be very helpful.
I look forward to your comments and informed answers.
H
Hausbau2k1611 Oct 2016 14:02RobsonMKK schrieb:
Originally, the thread title said "new construction," which was visually distracting. No one claimed it was a fake. Okay.
RobsonMKK schrieb:
However, the mistake could have been noticed by anyone, even someone visually impaired using crutches. Specifically, several people: the structural builder, the window installer, the site manager, and you... Absolutely correct. It could have been noticed, but it was not, or the site manager did not want to acknowledge the issue. However, that is not the point, and I mentioned at the beginning that I do not want to assign blame here because it is clear who made the mistake. I also deliberately did not name the construction company or upload any building plans that would reveal the general contractor. I know that discussions in forums can be difficult and often go off-topic, but my focus is solely on the question I asked.
I wanted to change the title yesterday but then forgot, and we ended up changing it at the same time today. So, nothing dramatic.
I don’t find the exterior view that dramatic.
Inside, it might feel a bit unusual, especially if you are quite tall.
As mentioned earlier, no one here can really give you a reliable answer to your question. Personally, I would recommend consulting a building surveyor. They can definitely support you in this matter and also take a look at the rest.
I don’t find the exterior view that dramatic.
Inside, it might feel a bit unusual, especially if you are quite tall.
As mentioned earlier, no one here can really give you a reliable answer to your question. Personally, I would recommend consulting a building surveyor. They can definitely support you in this matter and also take a look at the rest.
H
Hausbau2k1611 Oct 2016 14:21Musketier schrieb:
I wanted to adjust the title yesterday, but then I forgot, and today we changed it at the same time. So nothing dramatic. All good, thanks for adjusting it!
Musketier schrieb:
I don’t find the exterior view that dramatic now.
Inside, it might feel a bit unusual, especially if you are quite tall. Since I don’t know who might be silently following along here and perhaps recognizes “their construction site,” I won’t comment further or pass any judgment, and will stay impartial.
Musketier schrieb:
As mentioned earlier, no one here will be able to seriously answer your question. Personally, I would recommend a building inspector. They can definitely support you in this situation and can also review the rest of the issues. Okay, that’s how I see it now too. I thought there might be a few experts in construction trades and German legal practice here who could have given me some helpful advice. Too bad.
The building inspector was commissioned today and legal advice is scheduled for Friday.
B
Bauexperte11 Oct 2016 15:41Hello,
The additional photos are very helpful; at least I now know that I could have saved myself the comment about the parapet height on the gable side and will need to ask more carefully in the future.
Then there will certainly be the question of cost versus benefit. The error is less noticeable on the gable side; next to the front door, however, it looks unusual to me. The question of an economical solution remains.
If the windows are removed – I hardly believe this can be done without damage – the lintels will have to be relocated, and the interior plaster and facade will need to be redone; the electrical installation is probably unaffected. Four windows, masons, and plasterers will have to replaster the entire window area, and the facade specialist as well. Altogether, this "could" add up to around EUR 20,000 (approx. USD 22,000).
As I understand you, you are more interested in financial compensation. I wonder how that is supposed to be calculated? The kitchen can still be adjusted, and inside the utility room and guest toilet it won’t be so noticeable. What remains are the living room window and especially the exterior appearance. Window reveals or partially colored painting could be a first approach here.
I am curious to see what recommendation the expert will give.
Regards, Bauexperte
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:There are – but what else would you expect besides the recommendation to stick to the execution plans?
I thought there were some professionals from the construction trades and German legal system participating here who could have given me some helpful advice.
The additional photos are very helpful; at least I now know that I could have saved myself the comment about the parapet height on the gable side and will need to ask more carefully in the future.
Hausbau2k16 schrieb:I think experts are the right choice; in my opinion, a lawyer is premature at this stage. Either way, they will probably repeat what the users here have already said: you noticed it too late. This likely means you will be held partially responsible.
The building inspector was commissioned today, and legal advice is scheduled for Friday.
Then there will certainly be the question of cost versus benefit. The error is less noticeable on the gable side; next to the front door, however, it looks unusual to me. The question of an economical solution remains.
If the windows are removed – I hardly believe this can be done without damage – the lintels will have to be relocated, and the interior plaster and facade will need to be redone; the electrical installation is probably unaffected. Four windows, masons, and plasterers will have to replaster the entire window area, and the facade specialist as well. Altogether, this "could" add up to around EUR 20,000 (approx. USD 22,000).
As I understand you, you are more interested in financial compensation. I wonder how that is supposed to be calculated? The kitchen can still be adjusted, and inside the utility room and guest toilet it won’t be so noticeable. What remains are the living room window and especially the exterior appearance. Window reveals or partially colored painting could be a first approach here.
I am curious to see what recommendation the expert will give.
Regards, Bauexperte
Hi Bauexperte,
without knowing the contractual setup of the original poster, but:
I have learned by now that building regulations are often completely absurd, but in my opinion, the general contractor (GC) or site manager is responsible for checking the measurements. Can the GC seriously find a way to shift the responsibility onto a LAYPERSON?
I don’t accept the argument: "Even a blind person with a cane could see that, the client should have noticed." If the client as a layperson should have noticed it, then the site manager as a professional should have noticed it even more, right?
Also, I don’t find it that obvious—especially at the living room windows, you probably would have had to measure to see it. The windows on the front door side stand out more, but even that is not a perfect indication of an error. Our front door is also taller than the kitchen window next to it, but that’s because of the oversized front door.
If the GC makes a proper offer, maybe a few cosmetic fixes would be enough.
Do I really have to turn half of the ground floor back into a shell?!
Best regards,
Andreas
without knowing the contractual setup of the original poster, but:
Bauexperte schrieb:
you noticed it too late. That probably means you bear some partial responsibility.
I have learned by now that building regulations are often completely absurd, but in my opinion, the general contractor (GC) or site manager is responsible for checking the measurements. Can the GC seriously find a way to shift the responsibility onto a LAYPERSON?
I don’t accept the argument: "Even a blind person with a cane could see that, the client should have noticed." If the client as a layperson should have noticed it, then the site manager as a professional should have noticed it even more, right?
Also, I don’t find it that obvious—especially at the living room windows, you probably would have had to measure to see it. The windows on the front door side stand out more, but even that is not a perfect indication of an error. Our front door is also taller than the kitchen window next to it, but that’s because of the oversized front door.
If the GC makes a proper offer, maybe a few cosmetic fixes would be enough.
Do I really have to turn half of the ground floor back into a shell?!
Best regards,
Andreas
H
Hausbau2k1611 Oct 2016 16:23Bauexperte schrieb:
Hello,
I think involving experts is appropriate; however, at this early stage, I consider lawyers out of place. Either way, in my opinion, they will just repeat what users here have already written: you noticed it too late. This likely means you will be held partially responsible. The managing director of the construction company already ruled this out yesterday and made a clear statement in front of all parties involved: "There is a site manager for this kind of issue, who must take care of it." You probably missed it, but we informed the site manager about our concerns regarding the windows in a timely manner. He dismissed them, and the issue was considered settled, so the work continued. The site manager admitted this quietly yesterday. Of course, one could argue that I should have been more assertive, but I was not and focused on other matters. Be that as it may, it can’t be changed now.
Bauexperte schrieb:
... The question remains about an economical solution.
If the windows are taken out – I doubt that can be done without damage –, lintels would have to be adjusted, interior plaster and the facade renewed; electrical installations would probably not be affected. For 4 windows, a bricklayer and plasterer would have to completely replaster each window area, and the facade specialist as well. Altogether, this “could” cost around 20,000 EUR (approximately 21,000 USD). I agree with this estimate. And that is when jurisprudence would come into play, if it should come to that. Of course, a legal dispute is not the intended goal. However, looking at various court rulings, quite different amounts come into consideration. That is why I asked about the likely penalty surcharge needed to motivate progress on this issue.
Bauexperte schrieb:
From what I understand, you are more interested in financial compensation. So I wonder, how would that be quantified? The kitchen can still be adjusted, and it won’t be so noticeable inside the utility room and guest toilet. That leaves the living room window _and_ especially the exterior appearance. Window reveals or a partial two-tone paint job could be a first approach here.
I am curious about the expert’s recommendation.
Regards, Bauexperte In principle, I am open to any proposed solution from the general contractor, but I don’t believe the construction company will be able to manage this without follow-up issues. How financial compensation could look has already been established by courts several times, always based on the anticipated cost of rectifying the defects. That is why I asked about the amount, which only a professional who calculates such projects can answer.
By the way, window reveals are already installed.
Best regards.
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