ᐅ Would you choose to build with solid masonry construction or not?
Created on: 24 Apr 2008 11:25
B
Bauer
Since we are already discussing the planning of our house, how should one plan and build it? What is the current trend? Is it moving back towards solid or masonry construction? Or are prefabricated houses and similar options still popular?
Is it simply a cost issue? Those who can afford solid construction go for it, while others who don’t have the budget settle for prefabricated houses?
Is it simply a cost issue? Those who can afford solid construction go for it, while others who don’t have the budget settle for prefabricated houses?
I
interseption24 Feb 2009 08:15No, DM is bankrupt!!!
H
Honigkuchen24 Feb 2009 09:05Solid Construction – Definitely Our Choice
Hello Bauer,
Well, the whole debate about “solid stone construction versus timber frame” feels to me—after spending months researching countless websites and building magazines—almost like a matter of belief, like “Star Wars or Star Trek???”
Personally, I find it quite ridiculous that supporters of both construction methods clash fiercely and always highlight the downsides of the other method...
As an independent soon-to-be home builder, I’ll share how I see it:
1. Banks still value solid masonry houses higher than prefabricated timber frame houses (regardless of what they say upfront); this is important for loan approvals and property valuation.
2. Solid masonry houses tend to depreciate less in value compared to timber frame houses.
3. Solid masonry houses generally sell faster than timber frame houses.
4. Solid masonry houses usually offer better sound insulation than timber frame houses.
5. Solid masonry walls typically need to be thicker (meaning less net living space) than timber frame walls with comparable later U-values, if you want to build monolithically (e.g., with just one type of brick without external insulation systems [EIFS / external thermal insulation composite system]), which is what we want, because:
6. EIFS layers, which are often multi-layered, personally seem too vulnerable to me (depending on the quality of the installers), and from what I’ve seen so far, most timber frame houses use these multi-layered EIFS.
- Yes, there are also massive timber houses, but those are extremely expensive in comparison.
7. Solid masonry walls are said to have better thermal mass and can keep heat out better in summer. I can confirm this from the house my grandparents have in the south. Inside, it remains pleasantly cool, while it’s boiling outside.
8. Prefabricated houses, especially timber frame ones, are MORE EXPENSIVE (!!!) than solid houses you have tendered together with an architect!!!
- How do I know this?
I honestly own around 80 building magazines here, and they always feature houses from prefabricated house providers, most of which are timber frame with EIFS, and also massive houses realized together with (usually) an architect.
I calculate the price per square meter every time and have found, surprisingly, that the timber frame prefab houses with EIFS are more expensive than the mostly massive architect-designed houses!
It may be because timber frame prefab house providers have an administrative apparatus, many employees, advertising, branch offices, etc., so all that needs to be paid for upfront.
- Sure, you have to shell out a few thousand dollars more for the architect, but that pays off in the long run (if you have a good architect).
- Speaking of architects: I have 3 in shortlisting, and all say they build about 90 to 100% solid masonry houses; they can also do timber, but most German clients ask for solid construction.
There are certainly more pros and cons, but I don’t have them all in mind.
- Anyway, we decided on a solid house for several reasons mentioned above. Whether it will be prefab or brick-by-brick is still to be decided (I still need to talk to the future architect).
- The reason I always say “timber frame houses” instead of just “prefab houses” is that, as already correctly pointed out, there are also solid prefab houses!
These are poured in the factory or bricks laid, and then the prefabricated panels—sometimes even entire rooms, sometimes with pre-installed kitchens!—arrive on large trucks, and voilà, your solid house is ready.
But those monolithically built walls with good, but thick bricks somehow seem more reliable to me; if anything happens, I’ll know immediately it’s an issue with the brick or some sealing, whereas with the other construction method, I’d have to guess which layer of the EIFS might be the problem... I also think that repairs in a monolithic system (also solid timber, of course) are probably easier and therefore cheaper than with multi-layer EIFS.
There are also good bricks (e.g., porous bricks) that are then additionally insulated with a single-layer insulation material, achieving just as fantastic or even better values than a thick monolith; perhaps the total wall thickness is similar, but maybe it’s cheaper using insulation rather than one thick brick? Monolithic walls with excellent U-values could certainly be more expensive—but, as I said, I have no experience with that yet, I need to ask.
Because, as mentioned several times already:
Energy efficiency is what really matters.
Furthermore, well-insulated and low-energy houses can benefit from subsidized loans from programs like the KfW.
Regards
Honigkuchen
Bauer schrieb:
Since we’re already discussing our house planning, how should one plan and build a house? What’s the current trend? Is it heading back toward solid construction? Or are prefabricated houses still popular?!
Is it simply a matter of cost? Those who can afford solid construction go for it, and those with less money settle for prefabricated houses?
Hello Bauer,
Well, the whole debate about “solid stone construction versus timber frame” feels to me—after spending months researching countless websites and building magazines—almost like a matter of belief, like “Star Wars or Star Trek???”
Personally, I find it quite ridiculous that supporters of both construction methods clash fiercely and always highlight the downsides of the other method...
As an independent soon-to-be home builder, I’ll share how I see it:
1. Banks still value solid masonry houses higher than prefabricated timber frame houses (regardless of what they say upfront); this is important for loan approvals and property valuation.
2. Solid masonry houses tend to depreciate less in value compared to timber frame houses.
3. Solid masonry houses generally sell faster than timber frame houses.
4. Solid masonry houses usually offer better sound insulation than timber frame houses.
5. Solid masonry walls typically need to be thicker (meaning less net living space) than timber frame walls with comparable later U-values, if you want to build monolithically (e.g., with just one type of brick without external insulation systems [EIFS / external thermal insulation composite system]), which is what we want, because:
6. EIFS layers, which are often multi-layered, personally seem too vulnerable to me (depending on the quality of the installers), and from what I’ve seen so far, most timber frame houses use these multi-layered EIFS.
- Yes, there are also massive timber houses, but those are extremely expensive in comparison.
7. Solid masonry walls are said to have better thermal mass and can keep heat out better in summer. I can confirm this from the house my grandparents have in the south. Inside, it remains pleasantly cool, while it’s boiling outside.
8. Prefabricated houses, especially timber frame ones, are MORE EXPENSIVE (!!!) than solid houses you have tendered together with an architect!!!
- How do I know this?
I honestly own around 80 building magazines here, and they always feature houses from prefabricated house providers, most of which are timber frame with EIFS, and also massive houses realized together with (usually) an architect.
I calculate the price per square meter every time and have found, surprisingly, that the timber frame prefab houses with EIFS are more expensive than the mostly massive architect-designed houses!
It may be because timber frame prefab house providers have an administrative apparatus, many employees, advertising, branch offices, etc., so all that needs to be paid for upfront.
- Sure, you have to shell out a few thousand dollars more for the architect, but that pays off in the long run (if you have a good architect).
- Speaking of architects: I have 3 in shortlisting, and all say they build about 90 to 100% solid masonry houses; they can also do timber, but most German clients ask for solid construction.
There are certainly more pros and cons, but I don’t have them all in mind.
- Anyway, we decided on a solid house for several reasons mentioned above. Whether it will be prefab or brick-by-brick is still to be decided (I still need to talk to the future architect).
- The reason I always say “timber frame houses” instead of just “prefab houses” is that, as already correctly pointed out, there are also solid prefab houses!
These are poured in the factory or bricks laid, and then the prefabricated panels—sometimes even entire rooms, sometimes with pre-installed kitchens!—arrive on large trucks, and voilà, your solid house is ready.
But those monolithically built walls with good, but thick bricks somehow seem more reliable to me; if anything happens, I’ll know immediately it’s an issue with the brick or some sealing, whereas with the other construction method, I’d have to guess which layer of the EIFS might be the problem... I also think that repairs in a monolithic system (also solid timber, of course) are probably easier and therefore cheaper than with multi-layer EIFS.
There are also good bricks (e.g., porous bricks) that are then additionally insulated with a single-layer insulation material, achieving just as fantastic or even better values than a thick monolith; perhaps the total wall thickness is similar, but maybe it’s cheaper using insulation rather than one thick brick? Monolithic walls with excellent U-values could certainly be more expensive—but, as I said, I have no experience with that yet, I need to ask.
Because, as mentioned several times already:
Energy efficiency is what really matters.
Furthermore, well-insulated and low-energy houses can benefit from subsidized loans from programs like the KfW.
Regards
Honigkuchen
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