Hello,
This is about my parents’ house. It was built in the 1960s and is very well maintained. A few years ago, my parents had additional seals installed on the double-glazed windows, and the roller shutter boxes were insulated. For the roof, my father added a layer of mineral wool, I believe with a membrane and then drywall, but I’m not completely sure about the details. The whole house has radiators; there is no underfloor heating. The house is divided into two apartments: the ground floor is rented out, and my parents live on the first floor.
My father has been pestering me for years about the heating system. At the moment, they heat with oil. I estimate the heating system is about 15 years old, maybe a bit older. It works perfectly. My father always says that eventually it will need to be replaced anyway, and he’s not sure if he should start now because he could get good subsidies. If he waits until it breaks down, he’s uncertain whether subsidies will still be available. Would you replace a heating system that’s actually working fine now? I’m skeptical about that. With the current energy crisis, he’s even more eager to act.
The second question is what type of heating to choose now or later. Heat pumps don’t work that well with radiators, right? I have read that it’s possible to retrofit ceiling heating and then cover the ceiling with drywall. Does anyone have experience with this? Gas isn’t connected to the property anyway, and I would hesitate to consider it at the moment. Pellets, well, they are getting more expensive as well. It should also be noted that the orientation is not ideal for solar thermal or photovoltaic systems, and there are large trees casting shadows on the roof. If installing a new heating system, would solar thermal or photovoltaic panels be mandatory?
Many questions, maybe someone can give an assessment.
Best regards,
Tobi
This is about my parents’ house. It was built in the 1960s and is very well maintained. A few years ago, my parents had additional seals installed on the double-glazed windows, and the roller shutter boxes were insulated. For the roof, my father added a layer of mineral wool, I believe with a membrane and then drywall, but I’m not completely sure about the details. The whole house has radiators; there is no underfloor heating. The house is divided into two apartments: the ground floor is rented out, and my parents live on the first floor.
My father has been pestering me for years about the heating system. At the moment, they heat with oil. I estimate the heating system is about 15 years old, maybe a bit older. It works perfectly. My father always says that eventually it will need to be replaced anyway, and he’s not sure if he should start now because he could get good subsidies. If he waits until it breaks down, he’s uncertain whether subsidies will still be available. Would you replace a heating system that’s actually working fine now? I’m skeptical about that. With the current energy crisis, he’s even more eager to act.
The second question is what type of heating to choose now or later. Heat pumps don’t work that well with radiators, right? I have read that it’s possible to retrofit ceiling heating and then cover the ceiling with drywall. Does anyone have experience with this? Gas isn’t connected to the property anyway, and I would hesitate to consider it at the moment. Pellets, well, they are getting more expensive as well. It should also be noted that the orientation is not ideal for solar thermal or photovoltaic systems, and there are large trees casting shadows on the roof. If installing a new heating system, would solar thermal or photovoltaic panels be mandatory?
Many questions, maybe someone can give an assessment.
Best regards,
Tobi
D
Deliverer23 Jul 2022 21:5438 is still within the acceptable range. Do you heat all rooms fully for 24 hours? That’s also important.
The next step would be to replace the radiators with low-temperature radiators and/or activate them using fans. This also brings significant improvement.
Without major effort, you can’t turn an old building into a new one. But every old building can be heated economically with a heat pump, provided it hasn’t been neglected for 30-40 years.
The next step would be to replace the radiators with low-temperature radiators and/or activate them using fans. This also brings significant improvement.
Without major effort, you can’t turn an old building into a new one. But every old building can be heated economically with a heat pump, provided it hasn’t been neglected for 30-40 years.
Yes, I heat continuously. I also have the typical deep old-style window sills that disrupt air circulation. That would be my next step, which could potentially improve the supply temperature by 2 to 3 degrees Celsius (3.6 to 5.4°F).
Changing other radiators would be wasteful, as those savings would need to be compensated elsewhere. I am calculating quite conservatively.
At the moment, I still have a moderate gas and electric circuit.
Personally, I expect an annual performance factor of 3 for my system.
Let’s see when I need to switch. Most likely, it will be the 7 kW Panasonic unit that I plan to install myself.
Changing other radiators would be wasteful, as those savings would need to be compensated elsewhere. I am calculating quite conservatively.
At the moment, I still have a moderate gas and electric circuit.
Personally, I expect an annual performance factor of 3 for my system.
Let’s see when I need to switch. Most likely, it will be the 7 kW Panasonic unit that I plan to install myself.
Joedreck schrieb:
At an outside temperature of +7°C (45°F), I can’t reach a flow temperature of 30°C (86°F). More like 38°C (100°F).And in “real” winter, it’s more like 45…50°C (113…122°F). (It’s not possible otherwise, especially since some new buildings still assume 40°C (104°F).)
The question is also, which room temperatures are we talking about?
W
WilderSueden24 Jul 2022 12:00Deliverer schrieb:
But it is economically feasible to heat any older building with a heat pump, as long as it hasn’t been left to deteriorate for 30 to 40 years. Let’s get straight to the point... what do you consider a well-maintained but not fully renovated older building? What is its heat demand and what supply temperature does it require? Which average outdoor temperatures do you assume for the relevant heating months from December to February?
Otherwise, we are just arguing with strawmen here. I already gave my definition yesterday, along with the calculation that follows from it.
driver55 schrieb:
And in a “real” winter, it’s more like 45…50 degrees.
(It’s not possible otherwise, since some new buildings still calculate with 40 degrees.)
The question is also, which room temperatures (RTs) are we talking about? I don’t reach 50 degrees even with NAT. Even at -18 degrees Celsius (0°F), my supply temperature stayed below 50 degrees.
As I said, heating circuits (HC) have a lower limit regarding performance at low supply temperatures. The solutions have already been mentioned.
The return temperature is typically around 4 degrees Celsius (7°F) below the supply temperature. I run a high flow rate so that the gas boiler cycles as little as possible.
Currently, I have 768 burner starts over 3,708 burner hours.
But I think we’re drifting off-topic :-)
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