ᐅ Passive House as a Logical Choice? Are There Any Counterarguments?

Hello Yvonne,

ypg schrieb:

Quite simply: in the (contemporary) quality of the fixtures and fittings

This is actually hardly possible with a Passive House, since there are specific requirements that must be met.

ypg schrieb:

and built-in elements.

The above, however, is feasible if and only if you and I understand fixtures and built-ins in the same way.

ypg schrieb:

I’m actually surprised that a standard house can simply be used as a basis for such a Passive House or Multi-Energy House. I thought more parameters would be involved, such as window size and orientation—in other words, a custom-designed house on a correspondingly large plot of land.

Or do I not need to apply Passive House requirements to a Multi-Energy House?

Initially, you can configure any design as a Passive House—considering all parameters; location and orientation then make the house—as just one building component among many—either "only" significantly or "substantially" more expensive. Incidentally, a Passive House does not necessarily have to be an Energy-Plus House (which, simply put, means it produces more energy than it consumes), and an Energy-Plus House is not automatically a Passive House.

Best regards, Bauexperte

EveundGerd schrieb:
The price per square meter we received for a passive house was just under €2,040 (about $2,230). Additional costs cannot be ruled out. I find it hard to believe that €1,500 (about $1,640) is sufficient unless the provider cuts corners on materials or skilled labor. Our house, built to the Energy Saving Ordinance standard, is only slightly below that.

As far as I understand, the provider is from a neighboring Eastern European country. I cannot assess the quality delivered by this provider, nor how warranty claims might be handled later on. However, it is quite possible that the wage level is lower than in Germany, which could be reflected in the price. Whether a price below €1,400 (about $1,530) for a passive house is achievable under these circumstances remains questionable.

So, for my traditional solid construction house build (in the far west of the country), almost all the craftsmen were from (Eastern) Europe.

What else is there to save "in the East"? That level of cost reduction has practically already been reached.

After a long day, I’m back home and happy to see so much activity here. So, first:

No, it’s not an RD house; we have an offer from them for a KfW 70 house. The provider of the passive house is from the Vogtland region (am I allowed to mention the name here?).

ypg schrieb:
Will you have an instantaneous water heater at every hot water outlet? The buffer tank should be depleted quickly if several people use hot water in the morning...

So, three people will live in the house, for whom a 300-liter (80-gallon) buffer tank should last some time....

The instantaneous water heater is, of course, located in the utility room and heats the water regardless of which tap is opened.

ypg schrieb:
You are assuming a €60,000 additional investment over 30 years (purely hypothetical since we don’t know how prices will develop), which is €1,000 per year for gas. Over 30 years that’s €30,000.

I have no idea where you get €60,000 from; I mentioned an additional investment of €40,000.
We also receive a €10,000 repayment grant from KfW and €5,000 from SAB for the battery, plus as “entrepreneurs” we reclaim the VAT on the photovoltaic system, which sums up to €19,000, so that leaves us with just over €20,000 extra investment. Since we are getting about €150,000 on better financing terms, that’s an additional advantage.

Musketier schrieb:
What do you do with all the fireplace heat in a passive house? Open the windows and let it out?

Because I want to orient my large windows to the north (so I can see my garden from the living room, not the street), I’ll probably need some additional heating. I imagine burning 2-3 logs every few days. That will immediately warm the living room, and the mechanical ventilation with heat recovery will distribute the heat throughout the house. If it gets too warm, I’ll just open a window (a friend of mine has been doing exactly that with a house from this supplier for three years now…).

ypg schrieb:
It seems to me that Vogtländer visited a “good” salesperson. I just hope the project specifications are also correct (orientation, vegetation, neighboring buildings... I’ve done some surfing around), so the yield will be sufficient.

If I’ve only been fooled by a “good” salesperson, I hope you can convince me with facts before I get into debt without proper calculations.

Orientation: exactly south (really!!!)
Vegetation: no problem (not even in winter, since it’s too far and too low)
Neighboring buildings: All lots are built but similar to the vegetation since the lots south of ours are at a lower elevation...

EveundGerd schrieb:
The price per square meter we received for a passive house was just under €2,040. Additional costs can’t be ruled out. I can’t imagine managing with €1,500 unless the supplier cuts corners on materials or skilled labor.

I mentioned €1,750/m² and unfortunately wages here in Saxony are significantly lower than in the western federal states of Germany.

I am a fan of open, even controversial discussion but not yet committed to a position. I believe this leads to better results than just agreeing with each other.

With that in mind, I remain open to your counterarguments!

Good evening,

Vogtländer schrieb:

So we are getting the Energy Plus house for €210,000 (€1,750/sq m) fixed price (the Energy Saving Ordinance reference house offer would be €160,000, so about 30% less) ... Photovoltaics + battery cost €23,000 ... so a €27,000 extra cost from Energy Saving Ordinance to Passive

Vogtländer schrieb:

I had written €1,750/sq m .....

So €210,000 for an Energy Plus house - €27,000 for photovoltaics + battery gives me €183,000 for the Passive house. €183,000 / 120 sq m equals €1,525/sq m. Where is my calculation error, if there is one, which was trusted by 'EveundGerd'?

Regards, Bauexperte

The square meter prices I provided are accurate! They are current and refer to a passive house build in Koblenz without land. I used our house as a reference, as I mentioned.

Prices certainly vary by region.

There is also a comparison from the University of Frankfurt available online (I need to check again. I downloaded it as a PDF) regarding passive houses and the energy saving ordinance reference house.

The calculation turns in favor of the passive house after about 30 years. However, I will double-check.