Hello everyone,
Currently, we have two fairly final offers from two general contractors (GCs). One GC is a regional company that is reportedly very well rated online (4.7 out of 5 stars according to Google). All our discussions with them were very convincing, and we felt very comfortable. On the other hand, we have a well-known and respected GC, especially in the northern region, called Viebrockhaus. Our advisor there is very dedicated, and you can tell you are dealing with a professional salesperson, which does not mean we did not also feel comfortable with the regional GC. The house in question was designed almost identically by both, so we can compare very well. Nevertheless, both have their differences here and there in terms of house construction, building services, etc. Price-wise, Viebrockhaus is predictably about €6,000 cheaper. We are still very torn. For us, the price is not necessarily decisive, but mainly the quality of the final home, which is why I am seeking advice and opinions on the mentioned differences between the offers here in the forum.
In detail, the following points can currently be compared. The costs for the sampling/customization selection are not yet clear.
Currently, we have two fairly final offers from two general contractors (GCs). One GC is a regional company that is reportedly very well rated online (4.7 out of 5 stars according to Google). All our discussions with them were very convincing, and we felt very comfortable. On the other hand, we have a well-known and respected GC, especially in the northern region, called Viebrockhaus. Our advisor there is very dedicated, and you can tell you are dealing with a professional salesperson, which does not mean we did not also feel comfortable with the regional GC. The house in question was designed almost identically by both, so we can compare very well. Nevertheless, both have their differences here and there in terms of house construction, building services, etc. Price-wise, Viebrockhaus is predictably about €6,000 cheaper. We are still very torn. For us, the price is not necessarily decisive, but mainly the quality of the final home, which is why I am seeking advice and opinions on the mentioned differences between the offers here in the forum.
In detail, the following points can currently be compared. The costs for the sampling/customization selection are not yet clear.
| Comparable Services | Viebrockhaus | Regional GC |
| Insulation/Wall Construction | Double-shell wall construction 15 cm aerated concrete masonry, 12 cm thermal insulation, 1.5 cm air gap, 11.5 cm clinker brick veneer approx. 40.0 cm total wall thickness | Double-shell wall construction 17.5 cm backing masonry (aerated concrete PPW 2 or PPW 4, e.g., from Ytong or H&H), 18.0 cm core insulation (with thermal conductivity rating WLG 032), approx. 1.5 cm finger gap, 11.5 cm facing brick, approx. 1.5 cm textured plaster (grain size 2-3 mm, white color), approx. 50.0 cm total wall thickness |
| Attic (Wall Construction) | Drywall partitions | Solid aerated concrete (wall thicknesses of 11.5 cm and 17.5 cm, PPW 2–4) |
| Building Services | Air-to-water heat pump and controlled ventilation system Indoor unit: Nibe VVM S320, outdoor unit: Nibe Fighter 2040-6 | Air-to-water heat pump including controlled ventilation system with heat recovery Indoor unit: Stiebel Eltron, model LWZ 5 S Plus. |
| Photovoltaic System | 2.6 kWp with 6.5 kWh battery storage | 3.25 kWp with 4 kWh battery storage |
| Roof Structure | Studio truss roof with purlins | Purlin roof including concealed steel supports |
| Living Area | 152.40 m² (1,641 sq ft) | 151.47 m² (1,630 sq ft) |
| Warranty | 10 years | 5 years |
jwhick_07 schrieb:
Are you aware if KfW 40+ can also be achieved with monolithic construction? No, but 40+ is more of an ideal standard anyway; in my opinion, it’s not really cost-effective.
T
T_im_Norden25 Jun 2020 10:52Northern Germany is a two-layered construction region.
I would stick with that because the companies know how to handle it.
I find the wall structure of Viebrockhaus unusual; a 15cm (6 inches) interior wall is uncommon.
Viebrockhaus has some cost items that could become expensive since they are not included.
Are you building in a commuter belt?
I would stick with that because the companies know how to handle it.
I find the wall structure of Viebrockhaus unusual; a 15cm (6 inches) interior wall is uncommon.
Viebrockhaus has some cost items that could become expensive since they are not included.
Are you building in a commuter belt?
There are already many opinions here, so one more or less doesn’t make much difference.
I would go as far as to say that a well-constructed drywall partition is not only “not inferior” but in fact significantly superior to a supposedly solid solution with aerated concrete, both in terms of sound insulation and the mounting of (heavier) hanging furniture.
I don’t understand why some build double-layer walls only to plaster them afterward – a standard practice at Viebrockhaus. A well-executed external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS / external wall insulation) is certainly acceptable, provided it includes high-quality plaster. If you don’t like that, it’s a different matter. However, I think it’s wrong to prefer the double-layer construction just because “it has always been done that way in the North.” In any case, if insulation is needed anyway, I would rather go for sand-lime brick than aerated concrete.
Last but not least: (I have already mentioned this here several times.) You can create Excel, Calc, or Numbers spreadsheets until you’re exhausted, but they won’t reveal which offer is actually better (meaning cheaper for the same quality). Too much depends on the specific execution, and no construction specification in the world will provide that level of detail. Your decision should be: Do you feel more comfortable with the large, established construction company or the smaller, regional – possibly family-run – provider? Assuming neither supplier cuts corners, which I take for granted, both will deliver a solid house, probably at very similar prices. (I would consider differences under 10,000 EUR as negligible according to the quotes.)
I would go as far as to say that a well-constructed drywall partition is not only “not inferior” but in fact significantly superior to a supposedly solid solution with aerated concrete, both in terms of sound insulation and the mounting of (heavier) hanging furniture.
I don’t understand why some build double-layer walls only to plaster them afterward – a standard practice at Viebrockhaus. A well-executed external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS / external wall insulation) is certainly acceptable, provided it includes high-quality plaster. If you don’t like that, it’s a different matter. However, I think it’s wrong to prefer the double-layer construction just because “it has always been done that way in the North.” In any case, if insulation is needed anyway, I would rather go for sand-lime brick than aerated concrete.
Last but not least: (I have already mentioned this here several times.) You can create Excel, Calc, or Numbers spreadsheets until you’re exhausted, but they won’t reveal which offer is actually better (meaning cheaper for the same quality). Too much depends on the specific execution, and no construction specification in the world will provide that level of detail. Your decision should be: Do you feel more comfortable with the large, established construction company or the smaller, regional – possibly family-run – provider? Assuming neither supplier cuts corners, which I take for granted, both will deliver a solid house, probably at very similar prices. (I would consider differences under 10,000 EUR as negligible according to the quotes.)
T
T_im_Norden25 Jun 2020 11:11It’s not about whether it has always been done that way, but whether the companies are capable of it or build it often.
And here, it’s usually aerated concrete + insulation + facing brick.
And here, it’s usually aerated concrete + insulation + facing brick.
Well, I also occasionally travel "up north" and by now I often see ETICS solutions there. Are those always installed by people who moved in "from the south"? Just kidding — I don’t assume that finding skilled companies "up north" that install ETICS is a problem. As I said: whether you want that or not is another question, but I wouldn’t generally speak badly of it.
Greetings from "the center"
K1300S
Greetings from "the center"
K1300S
Z
Zigenpeter8625 Jun 2020 11:56Hello everyone,
a KfW 40+ standard is also achievable with insulated bricks.
We are building with TV07 bricks at 36.5cm (14.4 inches) and would need to increase the exterior wall thickness to 42cm (16.5 inches) to improve from KfW 55 to KfW 40.
Of course, it also depends on the rest of the house (windows, basement insulation, etc.).
Personally, I never wanted exterior insulation or a two-layer wall construction.
a KfW 40+ standard is also achievable with insulated bricks.
We are building with TV07 bricks at 36.5cm (14.4 inches) and would need to increase the exterior wall thickness to 42cm (16.5 inches) to improve from KfW 55 to KfW 40.
Of course, it also depends on the rest of the house (windows, basement insulation, etc.).
Personally, I never wanted exterior insulation or a two-layer wall construction.
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