ᐅ Is the turnkey shell construction company in Pforzheim/Enzkreis/Bretten recommended?
Created on: 18 Feb 2020 13:46
C
cyberfabiC
cyberfabi18 Feb 2020 13:46Hello Forum,
After reading through the posts for a few days as a guest, I have now registered to exchange ideas and ask questions that haven’t been answered yet.
The member @arnonyme seems to have some experience in my region, but maybe elsewhere too: we want to build a solid single-family house in the northern Enzkreis area. The design plans are finished, the plot is secured, financing is arranged, and we have been requesting quotes from several well-known companies for over a year now. We are still looking for a recommended solid house builder or general contractor (GC) who is affordable and reliable.
Our experiences so far:
- Fermo Ludwigsburg: approximately €120,000 (about $130,000) over our budget, but no proper offer was made, they apparently had no interest in a “standard house.” Waiting time before construction starts about 1–1.5 years.
- Viebrockhaus: about €70,000 (around $75,000) over budget, no actual offer either, just an estimate from the salesperson after reviewing plans and documents. Since we want to build with a gas heating system and it also seems too expensive – Viebrockhaus does not install gas – they are out.
- Schuckhardt Massivhaus Usingen: reasonably priced offer, around €25,000 (roughly $27,000) under budget, but it seems they just subcontract to the lowest bidder. Google reviews are generally good. Because they are located quite far away and there are no direct reports of experience, they are not currently in consideration.
- Lipps Massivhaus Pforzheim: apparently a small local building supervisor, who outsources to partner companies and craftsmen. There are no reviews or experience reports. We have been waiting for a quote for months after a fairly good initial conversation but cannot reach them.
- Frank Tittel Wiernsheim: recommended against by acquaintances, said to be significantly too expensive.
- U-Haus: also advised against, as they only build their own aerated concrete system walls. Since we want monolithic Poroton or Liapor masonry, they are not suitable.
- Lechner Massivhaus: sales staff in Fellbach come across as arrogant. While they did provide an offer, the price was about €80,000 (approximately $86,000) over budget with strange business practices. You have to travel 500km (about 310 miles) to Bavaria to discuss the final price in person with the managing director. A look into their financials shows an average company profit margin of about 20-25% annually (others 7-12%), which explains the prices. So that was dismissed.
- Schmid Bretten: family business, seems overloaded. Good initial talk, but it takes ages for the offer because their also overloaded subcontractors have to prepare their bids before a total price can be calculated. When we will get feedback is still uncertain.
- Bauer Engelsbrand: family business, very friendly advice from the junior boss. The first offer, however, took 3 months after repeated reminders. Several things were wrong or missing. The revision took another 2.5 months and was suddenly €50,000 (about $54,000) more expensive but roughly within budget. Unfortunately, it still did not match our requests precisely, though everything was confirmed verbally. After requesting another revision to finalize the contract, nothing came despite promises. Calls were ignored and the matter was dropped. A friend who built with them called them a “sleeping pill” because the construction took over 2 years despite a promised 10 months.
- Dürr Massivhaus: used to be a Town & Country representative, now their own sales. Very nice salesperson but less technically knowledgeable. We did get an offer but not as requested (e.g., no solid ceiling above the upper floor – they said, “you don’t need that”). After pleading, the offer was revised, but items Dürr doesn’t like to install were extremely overpriced and some details were verbal only. To get more binding terms, they require signing a construction contract first, then details could be discussed during planning. The company also insists on a bank guarantee from customers despite financing approval and proof of liquidity, which I haven’t heard from others. Price-wise, it’s within budget if you exclude the things Dürr doesn’t want to install. After some negative reviews, our gut feeling didn’t support them.
- Town & Country Akoma: great sales consultant, but they could not provide our requested house plan and only offered a Town & Country standard house variant. This was done, and an offer was created, but it was then €40,000 (about $43,000) over budget and no longer the requested house – smaller and with some unresolved open points. It seems very difficult to reach a satisfactory agreement there.
- HeinzFrey Bauunternehmung Kämpfelbach: family business, very structured advice. The offer took 7 weeks but some trades were still estimated only. The total price was over budget by about €50,000 (around $54,000). The biggest drawback was the wait until available capacities: construction could start earliest in 11 months, with a build time of about 14 months.
I hope my experiences provide others with an up-to-date insight. We also hope to start building our house soon. Tips and assessments are welcome!
After reading through the posts for a few days as a guest, I have now registered to exchange ideas and ask questions that haven’t been answered yet.
The member @arnonyme seems to have some experience in my region, but maybe elsewhere too: we want to build a solid single-family house in the northern Enzkreis area. The design plans are finished, the plot is secured, financing is arranged, and we have been requesting quotes from several well-known companies for over a year now. We are still looking for a recommended solid house builder or general contractor (GC) who is affordable and reliable.
Our experiences so far:
- Fermo Ludwigsburg: approximately €120,000 (about $130,000) over our budget, but no proper offer was made, they apparently had no interest in a “standard house.” Waiting time before construction starts about 1–1.5 years.
- Viebrockhaus: about €70,000 (around $75,000) over budget, no actual offer either, just an estimate from the salesperson after reviewing plans and documents. Since we want to build with a gas heating system and it also seems too expensive – Viebrockhaus does not install gas – they are out.
- Schuckhardt Massivhaus Usingen: reasonably priced offer, around €25,000 (roughly $27,000) under budget, but it seems they just subcontract to the lowest bidder. Google reviews are generally good. Because they are located quite far away and there are no direct reports of experience, they are not currently in consideration.
- Lipps Massivhaus Pforzheim: apparently a small local building supervisor, who outsources to partner companies and craftsmen. There are no reviews or experience reports. We have been waiting for a quote for months after a fairly good initial conversation but cannot reach them.
- Frank Tittel Wiernsheim: recommended against by acquaintances, said to be significantly too expensive.
- U-Haus: also advised against, as they only build their own aerated concrete system walls. Since we want monolithic Poroton or Liapor masonry, they are not suitable.
- Lechner Massivhaus: sales staff in Fellbach come across as arrogant. While they did provide an offer, the price was about €80,000 (approximately $86,000) over budget with strange business practices. You have to travel 500km (about 310 miles) to Bavaria to discuss the final price in person with the managing director. A look into their financials shows an average company profit margin of about 20-25% annually (others 7-12%), which explains the prices. So that was dismissed.
- Schmid Bretten: family business, seems overloaded. Good initial talk, but it takes ages for the offer because their also overloaded subcontractors have to prepare their bids before a total price can be calculated. When we will get feedback is still uncertain.
- Bauer Engelsbrand: family business, very friendly advice from the junior boss. The first offer, however, took 3 months after repeated reminders. Several things were wrong or missing. The revision took another 2.5 months and was suddenly €50,000 (about $54,000) more expensive but roughly within budget. Unfortunately, it still did not match our requests precisely, though everything was confirmed verbally. After requesting another revision to finalize the contract, nothing came despite promises. Calls were ignored and the matter was dropped. A friend who built with them called them a “sleeping pill” because the construction took over 2 years despite a promised 10 months.
- Dürr Massivhaus: used to be a Town & Country representative, now their own sales. Very nice salesperson but less technically knowledgeable. We did get an offer but not as requested (e.g., no solid ceiling above the upper floor – they said, “you don’t need that”). After pleading, the offer was revised, but items Dürr doesn’t like to install were extremely overpriced and some details were verbal only. To get more binding terms, they require signing a construction contract first, then details could be discussed during planning. The company also insists on a bank guarantee from customers despite financing approval and proof of liquidity, which I haven’t heard from others. Price-wise, it’s within budget if you exclude the things Dürr doesn’t want to install. After some negative reviews, our gut feeling didn’t support them.
- Town & Country Akoma: great sales consultant, but they could not provide our requested house plan and only offered a Town & Country standard house variant. This was done, and an offer was created, but it was then €40,000 (about $43,000) over budget and no longer the requested house – smaller and with some unresolved open points. It seems very difficult to reach a satisfactory agreement there.
- HeinzFrey Bauunternehmung Kämpfelbach: family business, very structured advice. The offer took 7 weeks but some trades were still estimated only. The total price was over budget by about €50,000 (around $54,000). The biggest drawback was the wait until available capacities: construction could start earliest in 11 months, with a build time of about 14 months.
I hope my experiences provide others with an up-to-date insight. We also hope to start building our house soon. Tips and assessments are welcome!
cyberfabi schrieb:
The design plans are finished, ... and the architect is not familiar with general contractors (GC)?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
So:
- 12 companies
- 5 too expensive (including Town & Country)
- 1 exactly on budget (with fewer services)
- 1 slightly under budget but considered a low-cost provider
- The rest either don’t want to, can’t, or we are still waiting.
I don’t know, it’s difficult to say much with so little information, and I think that’s why it’s probably not very helpful for a third party.
Looking at the statistics, my gut feeling would be to ask whether all the companies are overpriced or if your expectations might be a bit too ambitious.
But that’s just an impression from reading through it.
- 12 companies
- 5 too expensive (including Town & Country)
- 1 exactly on budget (with fewer services)
- 1 slightly under budget but considered a low-cost provider
- The rest either don’t want to, can’t, or we are still waiting.
I don’t know, it’s difficult to say much with so little information, and I think that’s why it’s probably not very helpful for a third party.
Looking at the statistics, my gut feeling would be to ask whether all the companies are overpriced or if your expectations might be a bit too ambitious.
But that’s just an impression from reading through it.
There is some truth to that, @face26.
Architects aren’t necessarily precise when it comes to cost estimation; a margin of fifty thousand euros can still be within the margin of error.
Since last night, I haven’t had the time to take a look at the mentioned parties – maybe more afterwards.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
cyberfabi schrieb:
The total price was about 50,000 € over budget.
Architects aren’t necessarily precise when it comes to cost estimation; a margin of fifty thousand euros can still be within the margin of error.
Since last night, I haven’t had the time to take a look at the mentioned parties – maybe more afterwards.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
C
cyberfabi25 Feb 2020 13:06These ARE the general contractor proposals from the design architect. Well, the budget estimate might be somewhat off, but actually quite far off. We have a volume of 1,000 m³ (cubic meters) (about 35,300 cubic feet) (a square urban villa with two full stories and a hip roof, attached double garage) and the budget purely for construction was set at 550,000 euros plus additional costs of 40,000 plus landscaping costs of 40,000. That means the Town & Country offer was around 590,000 euros (without being fully detailed!) plus additional costs and landscaping. The basement will have a heated hobby room and a shower bathroom. A special feature is the more expensive brick (Poroton S9 with mineral wool filling, 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thick) and a few soundproof windows in the bedrooms; otherwise, everything is standard (sanitary fittings Geberit Renova Plan, gas heating with solar thermal from Viessmann, central ventilation system from Viessmann, tiles 30 x 60 cm (12 x 24 inches) at 30 €/m² (about $2.80 per sq ft), etc.). If that is the case, market prices have clearly shifted disproportionately again, and we’ll have to swallow that. It is just difficult to understand how others apparently manage to build impressive houses for significantly less money.
C
CarstenMull27 Feb 2020 09:34My wife and I faced the same question until recently: which construction company best fits our expectations? After much back and forth, we received a recommendation from a colleague at work. He had years of experience in the construction industry, was able to answer every question, and helped us find the right construction company. If I were to build a house again, I would do it exactly the same way.