ᐅ Is the turnkey shell construction company in Pforzheim/Enzkreis/Bretten recommended?
Created on: 18 Feb 2020 13:46
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cyberfabi
Hello Forum,
After reading through the posts for a few days as a guest, I have now registered to exchange ideas and ask questions that haven’t been answered yet.
The member @arnonyme seems to have some experience in my region, but maybe elsewhere too: we want to build a solid single-family house in the northern Enzkreis area. The design plans are finished, the plot is secured, financing is arranged, and we have been requesting quotes from several well-known companies for over a year now. We are still looking for a recommended solid house builder or general contractor (GC) who is affordable and reliable.
Our experiences so far:
- Fermo Ludwigsburg: approximately €120,000 (about $130,000) over our budget, but no proper offer was made, they apparently had no interest in a “standard house.” Waiting time before construction starts about 1–1.5 years.
- Viebrockhaus: about €70,000 (around $75,000) over budget, no actual offer either, just an estimate from the salesperson after reviewing plans and documents. Since we want to build with a gas heating system and it also seems too expensive – Viebrockhaus does not install gas – they are out.
- Schuckhardt Massivhaus Usingen: reasonably priced offer, around €25,000 (roughly $27,000) under budget, but it seems they just subcontract to the lowest bidder. Google reviews are generally good. Because they are located quite far away and there are no direct reports of experience, they are not currently in consideration.
- Lipps Massivhaus Pforzheim: apparently a small local building supervisor, who outsources to partner companies and craftsmen. There are no reviews or experience reports. We have been waiting for a quote for months after a fairly good initial conversation but cannot reach them.
- Frank Tittel Wiernsheim: recommended against by acquaintances, said to be significantly too expensive.
- U-Haus: also advised against, as they only build their own aerated concrete system walls. Since we want monolithic Poroton or Liapor masonry, they are not suitable.
- Lechner Massivhaus: sales staff in Fellbach come across as arrogant. While they did provide an offer, the price was about €80,000 (approximately $86,000) over budget with strange business practices. You have to travel 500km (about 310 miles) to Bavaria to discuss the final price in person with the managing director. A look into their financials shows an average company profit margin of about 20-25% annually (others 7-12%), which explains the prices. So that was dismissed.
- Schmid Bretten: family business, seems overloaded. Good initial talk, but it takes ages for the offer because their also overloaded subcontractors have to prepare their bids before a total price can be calculated. When we will get feedback is still uncertain.
- Bauer Engelsbrand: family business, very friendly advice from the junior boss. The first offer, however, took 3 months after repeated reminders. Several things were wrong or missing. The revision took another 2.5 months and was suddenly €50,000 (about $54,000) more expensive but roughly within budget. Unfortunately, it still did not match our requests precisely, though everything was confirmed verbally. After requesting another revision to finalize the contract, nothing came despite promises. Calls were ignored and the matter was dropped. A friend who built with them called them a “sleeping pill” because the construction took over 2 years despite a promised 10 months.
- Dürr Massivhaus: used to be a Town & Country representative, now their own sales. Very nice salesperson but less technically knowledgeable. We did get an offer but not as requested (e.g., no solid ceiling above the upper floor – they said, “you don’t need that”). After pleading, the offer was revised, but items Dürr doesn’t like to install were extremely overpriced and some details were verbal only. To get more binding terms, they require signing a construction contract first, then details could be discussed during planning. The company also insists on a bank guarantee from customers despite financing approval and proof of liquidity, which I haven’t heard from others. Price-wise, it’s within budget if you exclude the things Dürr doesn’t want to install. After some negative reviews, our gut feeling didn’t support them.
- Town & Country Akoma: great sales consultant, but they could not provide our requested house plan and only offered a Town & Country standard house variant. This was done, and an offer was created, but it was then €40,000 (about $43,000) over budget and no longer the requested house – smaller and with some unresolved open points. It seems very difficult to reach a satisfactory agreement there.
- HeinzFrey Bauunternehmung Kämpfelbach: family business, very structured advice. The offer took 7 weeks but some trades were still estimated only. The total price was over budget by about €50,000 (around $54,000). The biggest drawback was the wait until available capacities: construction could start earliest in 11 months, with a build time of about 14 months.
I hope my experiences provide others with an up-to-date insight. We also hope to start building our house soon. Tips and assessments are welcome!
After reading through the posts for a few days as a guest, I have now registered to exchange ideas and ask questions that haven’t been answered yet.
The member @arnonyme seems to have some experience in my region, but maybe elsewhere too: we want to build a solid single-family house in the northern Enzkreis area. The design plans are finished, the plot is secured, financing is arranged, and we have been requesting quotes from several well-known companies for over a year now. We are still looking for a recommended solid house builder or general contractor (GC) who is affordable and reliable.
Our experiences so far:
- Fermo Ludwigsburg: approximately €120,000 (about $130,000) over our budget, but no proper offer was made, they apparently had no interest in a “standard house.” Waiting time before construction starts about 1–1.5 years.
- Viebrockhaus: about €70,000 (around $75,000) over budget, no actual offer either, just an estimate from the salesperson after reviewing plans and documents. Since we want to build with a gas heating system and it also seems too expensive – Viebrockhaus does not install gas – they are out.
- Schuckhardt Massivhaus Usingen: reasonably priced offer, around €25,000 (roughly $27,000) under budget, but it seems they just subcontract to the lowest bidder. Google reviews are generally good. Because they are located quite far away and there are no direct reports of experience, they are not currently in consideration.
- Lipps Massivhaus Pforzheim: apparently a small local building supervisor, who outsources to partner companies and craftsmen. There are no reviews or experience reports. We have been waiting for a quote for months after a fairly good initial conversation but cannot reach them.
- Frank Tittel Wiernsheim: recommended against by acquaintances, said to be significantly too expensive.
- U-Haus: also advised against, as they only build their own aerated concrete system walls. Since we want monolithic Poroton or Liapor masonry, they are not suitable.
- Lechner Massivhaus: sales staff in Fellbach come across as arrogant. While they did provide an offer, the price was about €80,000 (approximately $86,000) over budget with strange business practices. You have to travel 500km (about 310 miles) to Bavaria to discuss the final price in person with the managing director. A look into their financials shows an average company profit margin of about 20-25% annually (others 7-12%), which explains the prices. So that was dismissed.
- Schmid Bretten: family business, seems overloaded. Good initial talk, but it takes ages for the offer because their also overloaded subcontractors have to prepare their bids before a total price can be calculated. When we will get feedback is still uncertain.
- Bauer Engelsbrand: family business, very friendly advice from the junior boss. The first offer, however, took 3 months after repeated reminders. Several things were wrong or missing. The revision took another 2.5 months and was suddenly €50,000 (about $54,000) more expensive but roughly within budget. Unfortunately, it still did not match our requests precisely, though everything was confirmed verbally. After requesting another revision to finalize the contract, nothing came despite promises. Calls were ignored and the matter was dropped. A friend who built with them called them a “sleeping pill” because the construction took over 2 years despite a promised 10 months.
- Dürr Massivhaus: used to be a Town & Country representative, now their own sales. Very nice salesperson but less technically knowledgeable. We did get an offer but not as requested (e.g., no solid ceiling above the upper floor – they said, “you don’t need that”). After pleading, the offer was revised, but items Dürr doesn’t like to install were extremely overpriced and some details were verbal only. To get more binding terms, they require signing a construction contract first, then details could be discussed during planning. The company also insists on a bank guarantee from customers despite financing approval and proof of liquidity, which I haven’t heard from others. Price-wise, it’s within budget if you exclude the things Dürr doesn’t want to install. After some negative reviews, our gut feeling didn’t support them.
- Town & Country Akoma: great sales consultant, but they could not provide our requested house plan and only offered a Town & Country standard house variant. This was done, and an offer was created, but it was then €40,000 (about $43,000) over budget and no longer the requested house – smaller and with some unresolved open points. It seems very difficult to reach a satisfactory agreement there.
- HeinzFrey Bauunternehmung Kämpfelbach: family business, very structured advice. The offer took 7 weeks but some trades were still estimated only. The total price was over budget by about €50,000 (around $54,000). The biggest drawback was the wait until available capacities: construction could start earliest in 11 months, with a build time of about 14 months.
I hope my experiences provide others with an up-to-date insight. We also hope to start building our house soon. Tips and assessments are welcome!
CarstenMull schrieb:
My wife and I faced the same question until recently: which construction company best matches our expectations. [...] If I were to build a house again, I would do it exactly the same way. Someone in the house photo thread will surely be glad to see the results.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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cyberfabi28 Feb 2020 09:15Thanks for the responses so far.
Update: we followed up with two companies that we generally liked.
There are now two conflicting statements about the construction time, which I can’t assess. What do you think?
One offers a construction time guarantee of 8 months starting from the beginning of construction, with a penalty of 50 euros per day afterward. He is confident and says this is absolutely no problem.
The other says he can’t guarantee anything in principle, but as a guideline, we should expect 13–15 months. Contractually, he commits to 15 months from the start of construction if necessary. He explains that classic solid construction with Poroton and concrete slabs can’t be done faster without risking moisture problems later due to shorter drying periods.
What do the experts say? Is the second statement true, or is it just an excuse to stay flexible for other interim work on different sites, etc.?
Update: we followed up with two companies that we generally liked.
There are now two conflicting statements about the construction time, which I can’t assess. What do you think?
One offers a construction time guarantee of 8 months starting from the beginning of construction, with a penalty of 50 euros per day afterward. He is confident and says this is absolutely no problem.
The other says he can’t guarantee anything in principle, but as a guideline, we should expect 13–15 months. Contractually, he commits to 15 months from the start of construction if necessary. He explains that classic solid construction with Poroton and concrete slabs can’t be done faster without risking moisture problems later due to shorter drying periods.
What do the experts say? Is the second statement true, or is it just an excuse to stay flexible for other interim work on different sites, etc.?
cyberfabi schrieb:
One offers a construction time guarantee of 8 months from the start of construction, with a penalty of 50 euros per day afterwards. He is confident and says this would be absolutely no problem.
The other says he cannot guarantee anything in principle, but as a guideline we should expect 13 to 15 months. Contractually, he commits to 15 months from the start of construction if necessary. Building classic solid construction with Poroton and concrete ceilings any faster is not possible without risking moisture problems later due to shorter drying times.Eight months versus thirteen to fifteen months is like comparing apples and oranges: A probably means the weatherproof shell, while B refers to the fully finished, ready-to-move-in house. My gut feeling clearly favors B.cyberfabi schrieb:
Is the second statement true, or is it just an excuse to remain flexible and assign workers to other sites in parallel?You won’t suffer in the least if the contractor allocates his workers elsewhere during your drying phases. He also seems experienced to me and reasonably factors in that his progress can be affected by delays caused by other parties involved in your construction schedule.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
cyberfabi schrieb:
Do not build with Poroton and concrete slabs without considering potential moisture problems due to shorter drying times.I would disagree with that statement. Concrete does not dry; it cures. And Poroton blocks these days are usually glued together, so hardly any water is introduced into the structure. The real moisture comes later with screed and plaster. I can confirm what A said. Eight months between excavation and moving in is quite realistic; I have experienced that myself. The weather-tight shell was completed after about 8 weeks. During the summer break, there were about 6 weeks of rest when the screed could dry.
I see it similarly, although for the eight months to be realistic, a good to very good logistics setup is necessary to ensure everything runs smoothly. Our house (Poroton blocks + concrete ceilings) could have also been completed in eight months, but in the end, it took just over eleven months—about two weeks past the guaranteed deadline.
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Marcel529126 Mar 2020 15:30Hello cyberfabi,
which company did you ultimately choose? We are currently also looking for a suitable construction company in the Pforzheim / Enzkreis region.
I would have liked to write to you personally, but so far I have written too few forum posts.
which company did you ultimately choose? We are currently also looking for a suitable construction company in the Pforzheim / Enzkreis region.
I would have liked to write to you personally, but so far I have written too few forum posts.
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