Hello,
I hope someone here can help me.
We are currently renovating a house.
I have requested a quote from a plasterer because we want to have all the rooms plastered. An employee already came to take the measurements. In his quote, he states the wall area as 220m² (2,370 sq ft).
I took the time to measure everything myself. I simply multiplied each wall’s length by its height and always subtracted windows and doors. I came up with a total of 158m² (1,700 sq ft).
I spoke to the plasterer about this, and he said the 220m² figure is correct because doors and windows that are smaller than 2.5m² (27 sq ft) are included. Only windows larger than 2.5m² are deducted. He referenced the DIN 18350 regulation for this.
To me, this doesn’t make any sense, since I am paying for materials and labor based on the square meters.
The actual area should be 158m², not 220m².
It’s like buying 20 liters of fuel at a gas station but being charged for 40 liters at the register.
Does anyone understand this and could help me see it more clearly?
Thanks a lot.
Best regards,
Kristof
I hope someone here can help me.
We are currently renovating a house.
I have requested a quote from a plasterer because we want to have all the rooms plastered. An employee already came to take the measurements. In his quote, he states the wall area as 220m² (2,370 sq ft).
I took the time to measure everything myself. I simply multiplied each wall’s length by its height and always subtracted windows and doors. I came up with a total of 158m² (1,700 sq ft).
I spoke to the plasterer about this, and he said the 220m² figure is correct because doors and windows that are smaller than 2.5m² (27 sq ft) are included. Only windows larger than 2.5m² are deducted. He referenced the DIN 18350 regulation for this.
To me, this doesn’t make any sense, since I am paying for materials and labor based on the square meters.
The actual area should be 158m², not 220m².
It’s like buying 20 liters of fuel at a gas station but being charged for 40 liters at the register.
Does anyone understand this and could help me see it more clearly?
Thanks a lot.
Best regards,
Kristof
Tolentino schrieb:
On the other hand, the supposed transparency regarding stated shipping costs is only apparent...Well, the trend is definitely toward customers expecting free delivery. But someone has to cover the cost...netuser schrieb:
How is a customer or layperson supposed to know that taking actual measurements involves significantly more effort than just measuring approximately!? I also don’t believe that the original poster asked or instructed the tradesperson to take formal measurements!?
In my opinion, this is part of customer- and service-oriented behavior—either informing the customer about the situation in advance or clearly stating it in the offer afterward.I see it somewhat differently with a plasterer. He mainly works for companies like general contractors and so on. In the end, he actually provided good customer service: he explained everything and referred to the relevant standards.I’m just imagining that I decide to upgrade my PC, go to a specialist store, and say, “I want more RAM, and here’s my device.” Then they give me a part (which is correct) and want to sell it to me. But I look at them puzzled because they don’t explain the installation.
Maybe that’s not a perfectly matching example, but it aligns with my point that an end customer in the wide world of specialists or tradespeople doesn’t always immediately get what they expect. The customer excludes the crucial service provider—the contact person who speaks their language and takes care of them—because they want to save money. They have to expect that there will be limits and few points of communication as a result.
Winniefred schrieb:
I still don’t understand how someone can not understand that as a customer, you want a reasonably accurate cost estimate. That’s exactly what I’m talking about: a reasonable cost estimate is one that does not include calculation efforts that would be less efficient without increasing accuracy, and without profit. It’s not about carelessness, but an EXPERIENCE-BASED VALUE where a SUITABLE, appropriate simplification of determination is applied. No one intends to disregard any need for accuracy. It is not about an experience-based threshold of how large openings customers accept being overmeasured — it’s about finding the optimal threshold to make simplifications that do not harm the result.
Winniefred schrieb:
We will probably need to have the ground floor re-plastered sometime in the next 2-3 years. [...] I’ll measure everything myself beforehand and then get quotes from 2-3 companies based on those numbers. Otherwise, each one calculates their own estimates and I can’t compare them. You are welcome to do that. Your plasterers’ vocational school teacher will be happy to demonstrate, using your reference facades as an example, how little the calculation was distorted (in the RESULT!) by overmeasuring openings up to 2.4 or 2.6 square meters (or, quite remarkably, not measuring them at all). Standard clothing sizes are also reviewed every few decades. So this “heresy” isn’t so wrong after all. “Why, how, what, who doesn’t ask stays dumb,” as they say on Sesame Street. I would only like to protect the standard-compliant overmeasurement from any suspicion of trickery (technical business administrator, not related to any craftsmen except butchers).
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knalltüte25 Mar 2021 20:18Measuring beyond specified dimensions is commonly practiced to the extent that every professional understands this without needing a separate explanation.
In our home builder’s contract, however, it was explicitly stated that openings larger than 2.5m² (27 ft²) would also be measured beyond the size — this applied to the 10cm (4 inch) thick solid wood walls. An explanation was given as to why (planning, cutting, corners, edges, reveals, etc.). We took this into account and accepted it :p
@ypg That’s why I NEVER sell individual components to end customers 🙄 They often expect (hours of advice regarding installation, etc.) for free, similar to the IT sector. But I want to charge €8 net per unit. That conflicts and makes it no longer enjoyable for me.
In our home builder’s contract, however, it was explicitly stated that openings larger than 2.5m² (27 ft²) would also be measured beyond the size — this applied to the 10cm (4 inch) thick solid wood walls. An explanation was given as to why (planning, cutting, corners, edges, reveals, etc.). We took this into account and accepted it :p
@ypg That’s why I NEVER sell individual components to end customers 🙄 They often expect (hours of advice regarding installation, etc.) for free, similar to the IT sector. But I want to charge €8 net per unit. That conflicts and makes it no longer enjoyable for me.
Anyone who manages tenders and construction supervision themselves should have a basic understanding of how costs are calculated. An estimate can be both exceeded and undershot, sometimes by as much as 20%.
There should also be basic knowledge of how tasks are carried out and which materials are used. Saying "make the wall purple" is probably too vague.
If one is not satisfied with the workmanship, it is best to find another professional. If there is no mutual understanding and trust, that is a poor foundation.
There should also be basic knowledge of how tasks are carried out and which materials are used. Saying "make the wall purple" is probably too vague.
If one is not satisfied with the workmanship, it is best to find another professional. If there is no mutual understanding and trust, that is a poor foundation.
superzapp schrieb:
That’s why I NEVER sell individual parts to end customers 🙄
They often expect (hours of advice regarding installation, etc.) completely free, similar to what you might get in IT. But I want to charge 8€ net per unit. That conflicts and then it’s no longer fun for me. I fully understand.
I used to work independently in providing services. In photography technology, there is copyright. What is sold are usage rights. That’s stated in the offer. After invoicing, everything went smoothly, he was surprised by my note forbidding photo distribution due to copyright laws, basically a five-line statement. I explained the situation to him. He didn’t want to understand. Should I have explained all copyright laws to him? The full composition and reasons, etc.? The topic is quite complex. He already had the information he needed. I then told him to comply, and if not, he would be committing an offense. Was I being unfriendly to the customer? I think, at some point, the customer must make an effort to understand or at least accept it.
I’m not referring to the original poster here, who just asked a quick question. That’s fine. But the general attitude that the payer claims all rights down to the last tiny detail—I don’t agree with that. They have a responsibility to understand the contract they intend to enter.
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