Hello everyone,
we are about to build a completely new house on a rear-facing plot. For the house (1.5 stories + basement), we are desperately looking for arguments to decide on the heating system to be installed.
When consulting various structural engineers, we often encountered what felt like predetermined opinions ("I haven’t installed gas for more than 10 years" or "With an air heat pump, I am independent"). Such blanket statements are of little use to me.
The following points I question:
Regarding air source heat pumps:
- Initial costs for the air source heat pump (compared to gas)
- Service life and the related payback period
- Electricity costs of an air source heat pump (electricity prices have nearly doubled in the last 10 years, and their future development is uncertain)
- Appearance
Regarding gas condensing boilers:
- Initial and connection costs (almost 40 meters to the house)
- Gas price development (according to an energy provider comparison site, the development has been fairly stable except for the years 2007–2009)
- Solar support (here I also question whether this makes sense, since the support is most needed in winter, when the yield is not particularly favorable)
we are about to build a completely new house on a rear-facing plot. For the house (1.5 stories + basement), we are desperately looking for arguments to decide on the heating system to be installed.
When consulting various structural engineers, we often encountered what felt like predetermined opinions ("I haven’t installed gas for more than 10 years" or "With an air heat pump, I am independent"). Such blanket statements are of little use to me.
The following points I question:
Regarding air source heat pumps:
- Initial costs for the air source heat pump (compared to gas)
- Service life and the related payback period
- Electricity costs of an air source heat pump (electricity prices have nearly doubled in the last 10 years, and their future development is uncertain)
- Appearance
Regarding gas condensing boilers:
- Initial and connection costs (almost 40 meters to the house)
- Gas price development (according to an energy provider comparison site, the development has been fairly stable except for the years 2007–2009)
- Solar support (here I also question whether this makes sense, since the support is most needed in winter, when the yield is not particularly favorable)
N
nordanney29 May 2014 00:44You can reduce the final costs for gas by using a buried gas tank for the supply temperature. A few families in our building area have done this because our local supplier does not offer gas there (due to lack of demand).
Hello,
In some cases, compensatory measures may be sufficient, making solar unnecessary.
For liquid gas, it should be considered that the important lower modulation levels cannot be achieved as with natural gas!
Possibly, a brine heat pump with an economical trench or horizontal collector could be an interesting option.
Best regards.
ferro schrieb:For this, the actual demand (capacity, energy) for heating and hot water must first be determined (basic assessment)!
.....we are desperately looking for arguments to support the heating technology to be used....
ferro schrieb:Civil engineers and architects are not HVAC designers! They lack the specialized training for this.
.....from various civil engineers, we have felt like we received preset opinions....
ferro schrieb:This question is definitely justified. One must distinguish between idealized calculations on paper (energy saving regulations / building permit / planning permission proof) and the actual conditions.
.....
- Solar support (here, too, I wonder whether this even makes sense,...
In some cases, compensatory measures may be sufficient, making solar unnecessary.
For liquid gas, it should be considered that the important lower modulation levels cannot be achieved as with natural gas!
Possibly, a brine heat pump with an economical trench or horizontal collector could be an interesting option.
Best regards.
E
ErikErdgas30 May 2014 17:09Hello ferro,
As Nordanny correctly pointed out, the basic information needed for a project-specific recommendation is missing. For a small single-family home, the key contact person—besides the planner or architect—is the building services engineer or the person responsible for preparing the energy performance certificate. Working together with them, your user requirements (number of occupants, comfort level), budget, and site conditions must be balanced.
In this context, a 40 m (130 ft) gas connection may not necessarily be a decisive factor, depending on the offer from the local gas supplier, who might provide special conditions for it.
There are persistent doubts about solar support combined with a gas condensing boiler system, and it is true that if legal requirements are not met, the renewable share can be omitted. But does that make sense? If solar support significantly extends the period during which the gas heating is not needed, and in winter, with a sufficiently large collector area that is not based solely on the legal minimum requirements and accounts for reduced solar yield, I can become less dependent on external energy supply, then it should be done. This avoids lengthy debates about rising energy costs, which are understandably much lower for gas and, for electricity, will continue to increase in volatility—not only due to renewable energy surcharges but through other factors as well.
Best regards, Erik
As Nordanny correctly pointed out, the basic information needed for a project-specific recommendation is missing. For a small single-family home, the key contact person—besides the planner or architect—is the building services engineer or the person responsible for preparing the energy performance certificate. Working together with them, your user requirements (number of occupants, comfort level), budget, and site conditions must be balanced.
In this context, a 40 m (130 ft) gas connection may not necessarily be a decisive factor, depending on the offer from the local gas supplier, who might provide special conditions for it.
There are persistent doubts about solar support combined with a gas condensing boiler system, and it is true that if legal requirements are not met, the renewable share can be omitted. But does that make sense? If solar support significantly extends the period during which the gas heating is not needed, and in winter, with a sufficiently large collector area that is not based solely on the legal minimum requirements and accounts for reduced solar yield, I can become less dependent on external energy supply, then it should be done. This avoids lengthy debates about rising energy costs, which are understandably much lower for gas and, for electricity, will continue to increase in volatility—not only due to renewable energy surcharges but through other factors as well.
Best regards, Erik
Hello and thank you!
I am already aware that no decision about natural gas or air-source heat pumps can be made without a detailed needs assessment.
For me, it was just important to find some basic arguments for and against the heating method. This is currently quite difficult. The rough floor plan for the building project is set, but it probably won’t be feasible due to budget constraints—there is hardly any buffer for unexpected costs...
I have already ruled out geothermal energy and liquid propane gas. The reasons are, on one hand, the storage tank, and on the other hand, I want to keep flexibility on the property (possibly adding a pool later).
I will create a pros and cons list once the floor plan is finalized and share it here for further discussion.
Regarding solar energy, I strongly question the technology for single-family homes.
Scenario 1 (solar thermal collectors for water heating):
The water storage tank is limited, which also limits the efficiency of the collectors.
Scenario 2 (photovoltaics):
Here, only self-consumption makes sense, since selling electricity back to the grid is at a much lower rate than what utilities charge. The problem is that electricity is mostly needed at later times. Are there suitable storage solutions? I haven’t found any...
Best regards
ferro
I am already aware that no decision about natural gas or air-source heat pumps can be made without a detailed needs assessment.
For me, it was just important to find some basic arguments for and against the heating method. This is currently quite difficult. The rough floor plan for the building project is set, but it probably won’t be feasible due to budget constraints—there is hardly any buffer for unexpected costs...
I have already ruled out geothermal energy and liquid propane gas. The reasons are, on one hand, the storage tank, and on the other hand, I want to keep flexibility on the property (possibly adding a pool later).
I will create a pros and cons list once the floor plan is finalized and share it here for further discussion.
Regarding solar energy, I strongly question the technology for single-family homes.
Scenario 1 (solar thermal collectors for water heating):
The water storage tank is limited, which also limits the efficiency of the collectors.
Scenario 2 (photovoltaics):
Here, only self-consumption makes sense, since selling electricity back to the grid is at a much lower rate than what utilities charge. The problem is that electricity is mostly needed at later times. Are there suitable storage solutions? I haven’t found any...
Best regards
ferro
ferro schrieb:
...I am aware that without a detailed needs assessment, no decision can be made between natural gas and air-source heat pump.
....I just wanted to find basic arguments for and against the heating method.... How could that be possible based on your own findings? That is inherently contradictory! ferro schrieb:
...will probably not be feasible due to budget constraints—hardly any cushion for unexpected costs... Every construction project ends up more expensive than initially estimated, assumed, or expected! Anyone who financially overextends themselves in the uncertain preliminary phase will have to expect a more or less significant money pit in the end!
ferro schrieb:
...
Scenario 2 (photovoltaics):....Here only self-consumption makes sense, since selling at a price much lower than what energy providers pay is not profitable.... Correct. Therefore, photovoltaics only really make sense today in combination with a heat pump for heating and hot water. Additionally, regular household electricity consumption can be credited. What counts is always the annual balance, not the momentary event.
Best regards.
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