ᐅ Air source heat pump electricity price increased as of January 1, 2022

Alessandro schrieb:

Where to place large heat pumps? Leaving aside historic preservation issues in cities like Munich, Hamburg, etc.

There are heat pumps designed for full indoor installation—are these really much larger than an oil tank plus boiler or a gas boiler?
In Berlin, many apartments have individual gas heating units—I recently saw an advertisement for a heat pump intended for indoor living spaces. It’s overall a bit larger than the indoor unit of a split air conditioning system. However, I’m not sure if you need one per room or if it was a low-temperature heat pump, or whether it can be connected to a hydraulic heating system.
There are always solutions; you just have to be open to them. And yes, governments need to set targeted incentives (which, in my view, doesn’t necessarily mean direct subsidies).

Many things are possible.
With air-to-water heat pumps, there is a legally prescribed noise level limit that is almost never achievable.
If this does not change, air-to-water heat pumps are initially ruled out.

There are plenty of technical solutions. For example, wastewater heat pumps.
Unfortunately, it often fails due to financial and political reasons.

Alessandro schrieb:

The biggest challenge in renovating existing buildings is, in my view, in large cities. Where do you install large heat pumps? Not to mention the restrictions related to historic preservation in cities like Munich, Hamburg, etc.

I think in big cities, district heating could be the better solution. On one hand, it allows for buffering through a very large thermal storage (keyword: sector coupling; also, surface area increases quadratically, but volume cubically). On the other hand, there are economies of scale. And also, not every location will be suitable for everything. But, for example, geothermal heat fields could be drilled under parks and other green areas (provided there isn’t a subway line running underneath), or an air-water heat pump could be installed on a flat roof of a neighboring building block.
Historic preservation is definitely one of the points that belongs on my list from earlier. We won’t be able to preserve every old facade exactly as it is. Some parts may not actually be worth protecting, some might be replicated, and some will have to be addressed with interior insulation. There should be some flexibility here.

Alessandro schrieb:

That’s true, but these are also political issues whose costs should only be passed on to the end customer in part. Everyone looks out for their own wallet first. That’s why an affordable heat pump electricity tariff and subsidies for the investment are a very effective way to encourage people to participate.
Past investments and subsidies were more like a scattergun approach, if I think of the “building child” subsidy for example 🙄
A cheap heat pump tariff would be more targeted and definitely not a scattergun method.

The state is all of us together, so this dichotomy doesn’t really exist. Furthermore, heat pumps are not sensible for everyone for the foreseeable future. As mentioned before… the biggest environmental gain is when a house’s heating demand is reduced from 300 kWh to 80 kWh. This step can be achieved without deep renovation and while people are still living in the house. The switch to low-temperature heating can then be done later when it’s convenient or simply omitted for some homes. We don’t have to solve two problems at once.
The habitability aspect is also underestimated. Here in the forum we mostly talk about single-family homes where a few months of construction during a change of ownership is possible. For an apartment block with 90 units, you can’t just relocate everyone for months.

And subsidized electricity for heat pumps is like a scattergun approach. The wealthy owner of a 2700 square foot (250 m²) new build with a heated gym in the basement (used one hour per week 😉 ) benefits just as much from subsidized electricity as the tenant living in a 215 square foot (20 m²) tiny studio. Every subsidy creates incentives and inevitably also perverse incentives. I’m just referring here to the BAFA-eligible ventilation + air-water heat pump monster units that everyone tried to sell me. Or the geothermal borehole we drilled that, by normal calculations, will never pay for itself — though it was subsidized at the time by BAFA (although due to a system change we will have to pay everything ourselves).

WilderSueden schrieb:

The habitability aspect is often underestimated. Here in the forum, we mainly talk about single-family homes, where having a construction site for a few months during ownership changes is possible. With a building containing 90 units, you can’t simply evict everyone for months.

That’s not necessary. These buildings can be upgraded for energy efficiency much more easily than single-family homes. There are now serial renovation methods where windows are removed, and entire sections including curtain walls and new windows are installed using cranes and aerial work platforms. With just two workers and a crane, you can renovate the entire facade and windows of half a city block within two weeks. This is currently being done by housing associations, for example. No mess inside the apartments, new radiators installed, and then a heat pump fits perfectly.

Just received the email that the base price remains the same at €8.90, but the rate is increasing from 16 cents to 30 cents. For us, this means the monthly installment for a 250 square meter (2700 square feet) house goes from €60 to €113. It’s still manageable, but it definitely leaves a bad taste.

SaniererNRW123 schrieb:

It’s not necessary at all. Apartment buildings can be retrofitted for energy efficiency much more easily than single-family homes. There are now modular methods where windows are removed and entire sections with curtain walls and new windows are installed using a crane and a lift cart. With two workers and a crane, you can renovate the entire facade and windows of half a city block within two weeks. This is currently being done by housing associations, for example. No mess inside the apartments, new radiators, and a heat pump fits perfectly.

At this point, I was referring to the switch to low-temperature heating. The facade is the minor issue, even without modular methods. We once carried out an energy retrofit in a student dormitory (maybe not the best idea not to bill heating costs based on consumption...). For a while, there was just scaffolding in front of the windows and a day spent replacing the windows.
However, I believe that if we want to use a heat pump, it really makes sense to go fully low-temperature heating rather than just barely managing it. In winter, we will still be generating electricity from fossil sources for a long time, so it’s more consistent to produce heat directly rather than taking the detour via electricity.