Hello, we currently have a somewhat unusual problem. We hired a carpenter to install a staircase, who had done some work on the house before and was generally okay. The removal of the old staircase and installation of the new one were supposed to happen on the same day.
To my surprise, the man showed up alone. I thought, okay, maybe his colleague would come later, but instead he said, "Can you hold this for a moment?" and shortly after, "Can you give me a quick hand here?" My husband is easygoing, and we realized the man wouldn’t be able to manage on his own. At the same time, the staircase needed to be installed urgently, and we just wanted to get the job done.
In the end, my husband spent half the working day helping, and the carpenter still didn’t manage to complete the installation; there simply wasn’t enough time (to be precise, he didn’t even start installing). As for removing the old staircase, a lot was left unfinished as well.
So, he left us without a staircase, though at least there was a ladder in the opening, allowing us access to the upper floor, and he said he would come back “some time,” as he was very busy at the moment... Some time later, when it was about scheduling the installation, I gently asked if he planned to bring a second person, since helping out wasn’t agreed upon. He said that if we didn’t want to help, he could bring his neighbor “for a small extra fee,” as the neighbor owed him a favor...
We found this whole situation completely outrageous and told him that we would give the job to someone else. We had not agreed to help; the contract was for the carpenter to handle the removal and installation completely by himself, for which he was being paid. Having neighbors working here unofficially would hardly be acceptable.
The end result was that he charged us double for the removal, including the cost of a temporary railing at the stairwell to prevent falls (in my opinion, it is his responsibility to secure the site if he leaves it half finished, which was already a breach of contract). He took the wood for this from us but still charged us for it, which completely crossed the line.
Under no circumstances do I see any reason to pay him the agreed fee for removal since he had us help for hours and only completed part of the work himself. After I told him this, he said he would immediately take the matter to a lawyer. I have already sent the corrected invoice (which I adjusted myself: deducting 40% of the labor cost, removing the railing costs and the wood) and will see what he does. But I suspect this carpenter deserves the “Golden Raspberry” of the trade in 2014.
I don’t have a direct question, as this is not a legal advice forum. But I am curious if any of you have ever experienced something like this, or as a tradesperson have expected or demanded (or included from the start) that the client acts as a free helper.
To my surprise, the man showed up alone. I thought, okay, maybe his colleague would come later, but instead he said, "Can you hold this for a moment?" and shortly after, "Can you give me a quick hand here?" My husband is easygoing, and we realized the man wouldn’t be able to manage on his own. At the same time, the staircase needed to be installed urgently, and we just wanted to get the job done.
In the end, my husband spent half the working day helping, and the carpenter still didn’t manage to complete the installation; there simply wasn’t enough time (to be precise, he didn’t even start installing). As for removing the old staircase, a lot was left unfinished as well.
So, he left us without a staircase, though at least there was a ladder in the opening, allowing us access to the upper floor, and he said he would come back “some time,” as he was very busy at the moment... Some time later, when it was about scheduling the installation, I gently asked if he planned to bring a second person, since helping out wasn’t agreed upon. He said that if we didn’t want to help, he could bring his neighbor “for a small extra fee,” as the neighbor owed him a favor...
We found this whole situation completely outrageous and told him that we would give the job to someone else. We had not agreed to help; the contract was for the carpenter to handle the removal and installation completely by himself, for which he was being paid. Having neighbors working here unofficially would hardly be acceptable.
The end result was that he charged us double for the removal, including the cost of a temporary railing at the stairwell to prevent falls (in my opinion, it is his responsibility to secure the site if he leaves it half finished, which was already a breach of contract). He took the wood for this from us but still charged us for it, which completely crossed the line.
Under no circumstances do I see any reason to pay him the agreed fee for removal since he had us help for hours and only completed part of the work himself. After I told him this, he said he would immediately take the matter to a lawyer. I have already sent the corrected invoice (which I adjusted myself: deducting 40% of the labor cost, removing the railing costs and the wood) and will see what he does. But I suspect this carpenter deserves the “Golden Raspberry” of the trade in 2014.
I don’t have a direct question, as this is not a legal advice forum. But I am curious if any of you have ever experienced something like this, or as a tradesperson have expected or demanded (or included from the start) that the client acts as a free helper.
Bauexperte schrieb:
Nothing is hidden; it is common practice to base calculations on mixed costing. Why is that considered unfair? No one can seriously expect craftsmen to provide their own equipment as equity, work almost for free, and still take full warranty responsibility (this is roughly how it is encouraged by the relevant platforms).
Regards, BauexperteLet’s put the platforms aside—that wasn’t my point at all. I see labor costs and material costs as two separate items. If the material price sometimes exceeds that of online retailers by 50-100 percent, it’s no surprise that customers look for alternatives. As an end customer, I’m basically doing the same calculation: either the craftsman is cheaper including materials (potentially with a lower hourly rate) or the craftsman charges a higher hourly rate and I buy the materials myself. That’s fair. And craftsmen, at least around here, aren’t exactly struggling.
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Bauexperte12 Dec 2014 21:49Good evening,
Best regards, Bauexperte
Ben1000 schrieb:I am quite sure that if your salary (and thus the secure foundation of your family’s life) depended on the good financial results of the craftsman, you would argue differently.
I see labor costs and material costs as two separate items. If the material sometimes costs 50-100 percent more than from online retailers, craftsmen shouldn’t be surprised when people look for alternatives.
Ben1000 schrieb:Because they do not engage in this game – no matter how tempting it may be. This is how they ensure their long-term survival.
And the craftsmen are not that badly off here, at least.
Best regards, Bauexperte
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Bauernhaus0113 Dec 2014 01:27She has already mentioned several times that it was not possible for her to obtain a complete local quote including installation for this staircase.
Regarding the price comparisons, Bauexperte, I agree with you on many points.
Regarding the price comparisons, Bauexperte, I agree with you on many points.
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DerBjoern17 Dec 2014 10:32I would have the remaining work completed by another contractor and deduct the cost for this from the originally agreed price, then transfer the remaining amount.