ᐅ Is it normal to have a wide price range between architects?

The architect wants nearly 15,000 for the plans, phases 1-4. Is this reasonable?
Living area approximately 190 m² (2,045 sq ft)
A development plan / zoning plan is available

Another architect charged 6,700 € for phases 1-4 but was not located on site.

That felt too risky for us because we are currently having a lot of communication with the architect.

How do such large price differences come about?

Then take a look at the HOAI ... and a Google search for “HOAI fee calculator” will lead you to the appropriate websites.

The 15,000 are billed according to HOAI, while the 6,700 is a billing based on an individually agreed flat fee, which can also be arranged. If this is not discussed beforehand, the architect is entitled to charge according to HOAI.

Benutzername12 schrieb:

The architect wants nearly 15,000 for creating the plans, i.e., phases 1-4. Is this justified?
Living area about 190sqm (2,045 sq ft) # Development plan available

Since the architect has apparently already delivered up to at least service phase 3, they have earned this fee and are entitled to claim it. Unless you agreed on a prior cancellation option, this also includes service phase 4 (even if it has not yet started).
The living area is only indirectly relevant (namely through the construction costs). Whether a development plan or section 34 applies has no impact on the fee.
We are currently discussing the topic of architect fees here: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundlage-fuer-anrechenbare-gesamtbaukosten.48193/

Benutzername12 schrieb:

Another architect charged €6,700 for phases 1-4 but was not located locally.

The ideal location of the architect’s office is within about 20–25 km (12–15 miles) around the client’s residence and building site.
However, commissioning phases 1–4 is anyway the root cause of most problems or at least most budget overruns. See my posts under the keywords "house building roadmap" and "Gerddieter" / "Gerddieter warns."

Benutzername12 schrieb:

That was too risky for us because we are currently exchanging a lot with the architect.

“A lot of exchange” — I fear the worst: does this mean developing the planning process practically like a “chat”?

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In any case, I think it’s a good idea to discuss how the architect plans to approach the project. Maybe they’ll share some insights from their experience. This way, you might get a sense of their style and potentially spot any red flags.

Will they provide a thorough preliminary design, perhaps presenting you with three initial drafts? Do they work more iteratively? Have you already done a lot of your own analysis or maybe discussed some aspects with the building authority, so the architect might save effort? How accurate are their cost estimates? Do they even provide a 3D visualization? Is a building feasibility inquiry, according to §34, included in their service? Some fixed-price offers, for example, limit the number of revisions allowed in the design. What are your expectations, and how complex is your project?

The HOAI (Fee Structure for Architects and Engineers) is often criticized as a safety net. I find it somewhat odd that, while it’s standard in construction to work with detailed service descriptions and to compare offers, what you actually get from an architect during planning can be quite unpredictable.

Think carefully beforehand and read relevant posts. I’ve found that if you follow the mantra often repeated in this forum—being honest with the architect about your budget and assuming that the professional will optimize the project and provide the analyses needed to make the right decisions—you can sometimes be greatly disappointed. General contractors often get criticized for trying to earn as much as possible with minimal effort, but the same can happen with architects.

thangorodrim schrieb:

Does he want to do thorough initial planning and present you, for example, with three preliminary designs? Does he take more of an iterative approach? Have you already done a lot of your own analysis or perhaps discussed things with the building authority (building permit / planning permission) so that he saves effort? How accurate are the cost estimates? Does he maybe even provide you with 3D visualizations, or is a preliminary building inquiry under §34 part of the service? Some fixed-price offers, for example, limit the number of design revisions.

If an architect presented three preliminary designs, that would already be a clear red flag. The same goes for what you politely call an "iterative approach." 3D visualizations are a good example of the gap between the standards of the HOAI (official fee structure for architects and engineers) and the expectations of many clients today. Revisions alone cannot replace structured collaboration during the design process.

thangorodrim schrieb:

What are your expectations and how complex is your project?
The HOAI is often referred to as a hammock. I find it somewhat odd that in construction, ideally, everything is done with precise scope descriptions and competitive bidding—yet what you actually receive from the architect in planning often feels like a bit of a lucky dip.
The problem is that the HOAI is a broad tool, and the use case of a detached single-family home is almost in its blind spot, or at least in the least efficient range. On the client side, the rates usually need to be applied with generous discounts, whereas on the service provider side, extra charges would be necessary to make such small projects economically viable. While the HOAI makes a lot of sense for large projects (especially large office buildings), it gives both parties the feeling of losing out when applied to a single-family home.

thangorodrim schrieb:

Think about it carefully beforehand and read related posts. I have noticed that if you follow the mantra here in the forum—honestly telling the architect your budget and assuming the professional will maximize it and provide the analyses needed to make the right decisions—you can end up very disappointed.

I have never encountered such a mantra in all my time on this forum. Those who disclose their entire budget upfront usually end up needing to finance extra costs later. Efficiency maximizers based on knowledge tend to be independent building consultants; architects have a different focus, a different professional emphasis, and a different education. That’s why I recommend working with architects—they should not be seen as interchangeable with consulting.

thangorodrim schrieb:

General contractors are often accused of wanting to earn as much money as possible for minimal effort, but the same can happen with architects.

This accusation is regularly unfair toward general contractors. Clients often approach the concept of value for money with a consumer mindset very unprofessionally. The route via the general contractor becomes inefficient and invites feelings of being cheated precisely when the client makes the mistake—note, HIS mistake, which he then blames on the general contractor—of combining a full contract with the general contractor while self-managing select specialized trades. Perhaps one could create a series titled “@Gerddieter warns... the client against himself.” Hopefully, the discerning reader already realizes what is missing here.

Where money truly gets made with minimal performance are the so-called "blow jobs," i.e., the scope of phases 1 to 4. Unfortunately, this is true, but the perception is even more disproportionate for those clients who expect an architect to be a value-added floorplan inspiration magazine with permit-stamping function based only on “the basis of their knowledge.”

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