ᐅ Complete Renovation of a 150 sqm Semi-Detached House Built in 1925
Created on: 4 May 2021 20:29
D
dankosos
Hello everyone,
We have been actively searching for a house for a year now. Unfortunately, the situation here is very tense and prices are skyrocketing—if anything is even sold at all. In the year we have been looking, we were only able to view two houses. For the few other interesting properties, we were too late, even though we contacted the seller on the day the listing was posted. My girlfriend’s bank advisor indicated that they regularly receive triple-digit numbers of inquiries for houses in our area. Here you can find the old thread—basically, not much has changed: we have saved some money, but at the same time prices are rising (faster than we can save). We are still in a good position financially, but there are still very few properties available.
However, we actually have a viewing appointment this Thursday for a semi-detached house from 1925 in a perfect location (a beautiful, central quiet side cul-de-sac). We know the street and even dropped a letter with an inquiry in that very house (though the appointment came about through the bank). A large plot (1250 sqm (0.31 acres)) is included. So, in principle, it’s ideal.
The house (150 sqm (1615 sq ft), fully basemented, 2 full floors plus attic) needs complete renovation except for the hipped roof (1995). The heating, bathrooms, floors, windows, insulation, etc. all need work. The bank advisor reportedly walked through the house with a contractor who estimated renovation costs at about €175,000 (~$190,000), which seems very optimistic to us for everything that needs to be done. We will bring an architect/structural engineer to the appointment—she estimated the costs after reviewing the listing at around €400,000-500,000 (~$430,000-$540,000), depending on what needs or can be done with the basement. Personally, I would estimate the costs somewhere in the middle range of €300,000-350,000 (~$320,000-$375,000), and perhaps our architect included a bit of extra luxury? Well, we will know more on Thursday. The problem: €500,000 (~$540,000) is definitely beyond what we can or want to afford, €400,000 (~$430,000) is borderline, and anything below that would be manageable.
We will have to decide very quickly, so I wanted to open this topic here and gather some initial feedback. A few questions as preparation:
1) The house is completely empty. From the floor plan and photos, the kitchen is currently at the rear, and the living and dining rooms face the front. Since it's a full renovation, would moving the kitchen to the front have a significant impact on costs? Naively, I would think the pipes just need to be extended and that’s about it?
2) Another thing we don’t like is that there is currently no terrace at the back. Instead, the basement stairs lead out to the garden from the laundry room. Does it make sense or is it expensive to “seal off” the stairs and build a terrace above them (the kitchen is on the elevated ground floor)? We wouldn’t really need the stairs since there is also a shed in the garden.
3) Do you have a rough idea how much funding or subsidies one could receive for such a complete renovation? New regulations with significant amounts apply starting July 1st. As mentioned, new heating, windows, insulation… What standard would be realistic or sensible for a house like this?
4) Regarding semi-detached houses in general: Are roofs usually renovated together with the neighboring half? From the photos, it looks like that was done during the last renovation.
5) In a full renovation, are there still likely to be nasty surprises or is it relatively predictable when everything is going to be replaced and the risk of needing extra funding well manageable?
Thanks in advance for your input!
We have been actively searching for a house for a year now. Unfortunately, the situation here is very tense and prices are skyrocketing—if anything is even sold at all. In the year we have been looking, we were only able to view two houses. For the few other interesting properties, we were too late, even though we contacted the seller on the day the listing was posted. My girlfriend’s bank advisor indicated that they regularly receive triple-digit numbers of inquiries for houses in our area. Here you can find the old thread—basically, not much has changed: we have saved some money, but at the same time prices are rising (faster than we can save). We are still in a good position financially, but there are still very few properties available.
However, we actually have a viewing appointment this Thursday for a semi-detached house from 1925 in a perfect location (a beautiful, central quiet side cul-de-sac). We know the street and even dropped a letter with an inquiry in that very house (though the appointment came about through the bank). A large plot (1250 sqm (0.31 acres)) is included. So, in principle, it’s ideal.
The house (150 sqm (1615 sq ft), fully basemented, 2 full floors plus attic) needs complete renovation except for the hipped roof (1995). The heating, bathrooms, floors, windows, insulation, etc. all need work. The bank advisor reportedly walked through the house with a contractor who estimated renovation costs at about €175,000 (~$190,000), which seems very optimistic to us for everything that needs to be done. We will bring an architect/structural engineer to the appointment—she estimated the costs after reviewing the listing at around €400,000-500,000 (~$430,000-$540,000), depending on what needs or can be done with the basement. Personally, I would estimate the costs somewhere in the middle range of €300,000-350,000 (~$320,000-$375,000), and perhaps our architect included a bit of extra luxury? Well, we will know more on Thursday. The problem: €500,000 (~$540,000) is definitely beyond what we can or want to afford, €400,000 (~$430,000) is borderline, and anything below that would be manageable.
We will have to decide very quickly, so I wanted to open this topic here and gather some initial feedback. A few questions as preparation:
1) The house is completely empty. From the floor plan and photos, the kitchen is currently at the rear, and the living and dining rooms face the front. Since it's a full renovation, would moving the kitchen to the front have a significant impact on costs? Naively, I would think the pipes just need to be extended and that’s about it?
2) Another thing we don’t like is that there is currently no terrace at the back. Instead, the basement stairs lead out to the garden from the laundry room. Does it make sense or is it expensive to “seal off” the stairs and build a terrace above them (the kitchen is on the elevated ground floor)? We wouldn’t really need the stairs since there is also a shed in the garden.
3) Do you have a rough idea how much funding or subsidies one could receive for such a complete renovation? New regulations with significant amounts apply starting July 1st. As mentioned, new heating, windows, insulation… What standard would be realistic or sensible for a house like this?
4) Regarding semi-detached houses in general: Are roofs usually renovated together with the neighboring half? From the photos, it looks like that was done during the last renovation.
5) In a full renovation, are there still likely to be nasty surprises or is it relatively predictable when everything is going to be replaced and the risk of needing extra funding well manageable?
Thanks in advance for your input!
First of all, the kitchen and exterior landscaping should be excluded. These are usually calculated separately.
There is also significant potential for savings through self-performed work, especially gutting the interior. Anyone who is physically healthy can do that.
Otherwise, it really sounds like quite high-end preferences: floor-to-ceiling windows, shading systems, expensive flooring, and maybe even new staircases?
Just have the stairs sanded and lacquered, and you’ll save around 10,000€ (approximately $11,000). Use affordable flooring in the children's rooms.
I’m not quite sure what to make of the floor plan work. It would be useful to see the difference between the current state and the intended state. Even structural wall openings plus steel beams are often much cheaper.
There is also significant potential for savings through self-performed work, especially gutting the interior. Anyone who is physically healthy can do that.
Otherwise, it really sounds like quite high-end preferences: floor-to-ceiling windows, shading systems, expensive flooring, and maybe even new staircases?
Just have the stairs sanded and lacquered, and you’ll save around 10,000€ (approximately $11,000). Use affordable flooring in the children's rooms.
I’m not quite sure what to make of the floor plan work. It would be useful to see the difference between the current state and the intended state. Even structural wall openings plus steel beams are often much cheaper.
M
Myrna_Loy5 May 2021 12:52We don’t know how deep the original poster’s pockets are or what was communicated to the architect. If the interest in the property is based on the fact that building wouldn’t be possible otherwise in a sought-after, exclusive location, but the highest level of finishes is desired and possible, then such a cost estimate can be realistic and even exceeded. However, if an average middle-class family simply wants an affordable, family-friendly home, then this might not be the right architect.
Winniefred5 May 2021 13:14I don’t see how you could spend that much money on this house. It’s not always necessary to completely renovate everything. The house still looks good. Of course, bathrooms and electrical systems may need updating—I agree with that. Interior plaster might also need attention depending on its age. If you have a lot of money, you can certainly do all that, but I don’t understand the point of buying a beautiful old house if you end up making it look completely different. The floors, for example, are definitely worth preserving; just have them sanded and that’s it.
So: we know the neighborhood quite well. A childhood friend of my girlfriend’s grew up just a few houses down the street, so we have some insider information. And honestly, everyone (the mentioned friend, a bank real estate agent, an architect) says that practically everything in the house needs to be done. The location is a dream, but the prices unfortunately aren’t. The land alone costs: land value guideline 300€ per square meter on a 1250 sqm (13,455 sq ft) plot. However, we can afford that. Just like we can handle 300,000€ renovation costs on top. And that’s really what matters to me right now, even though I haven’t seen the house from the inside yet: that it’s feasible, and by general consensus, it apparently is – which is good, and then we can base a possible offer on that 🙂
Whether we buy the house, at what price, and how and with whom we would renovate it is still completely up in the air. We don’t have a contract with the architect yet, but she offered to come along for free during the initial consultation, and it would be silly to go to the appointment alone without any renovation knowledge. If we decide to buy, we might also get a second opinion.
We have – I would say – somewhat high standards but certainly don’t need luxury features like colored windows or similar. It just needs to be nice and energetically renovated. There are already several successful renovations on the street (at least from the outside) – plenty of inspiration to draw from, and I’m not too worried that we will go completely overboard.
Quick question (don’t want to create a new thread for this): We have about 40% of the total price including additional costs and the hypothetical 300,000€ renovation costs as equity. Is it possible to buy the house first without a detailed renovation plan, holding back a large portion of the equity for the renovations and then managing those without involving the bank? Or does the bank usually want the entire project detailed upfront? If it’s possible to handle that independently from the financing, it would relax the timeline a bit.
Whether we buy the house, at what price, and how and with whom we would renovate it is still completely up in the air. We don’t have a contract with the architect yet, but she offered to come along for free during the initial consultation, and it would be silly to go to the appointment alone without any renovation knowledge. If we decide to buy, we might also get a second opinion.
We have – I would say – somewhat high standards but certainly don’t need luxury features like colored windows or similar. It just needs to be nice and energetically renovated. There are already several successful renovations on the street (at least from the outside) – plenty of inspiration to draw from, and I’m not too worried that we will go completely overboard.
Quick question (don’t want to create a new thread for this): We have about 40% of the total price including additional costs and the hypothetical 300,000€ renovation costs as equity. Is it possible to buy the house first without a detailed renovation plan, holding back a large portion of the equity for the renovations and then managing those without involving the bank? Or does the bank usually want the entire project detailed upfront? If it’s possible to handle that independently from the financing, it would relax the timeline a bit.
dankosos schrieb:
So: we know the neighborhood quite well. A childhood friend of my girlfriend grew up just a few houses down the street, so we have some insider information. And honestly, everyone (that friend, a bank realtor, an architect) says that practically everything in the house needs to be redone.If all the insiders say it would be too expensive even if given away for free, my outsider advice is: keep looking!https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Winniefred5 May 2021 13:51These statements certainly come from people who also had the spare money for it. Those who don’t have it only do what is truly necessary and then manage with under €100,000 (about $110,000) – in my opinion. Many others probably would have finished our house completely as well and spent four times as much. 😉
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