ᐅ Complete Renovation of a 150 sqm Semi-Detached House Built in 1925
Created on: 4 May 2021 20:29
D
dankosos
Hello everyone,
We have been actively searching for a house for a year now. Unfortunately, the situation here is very tense and prices are skyrocketing—if anything is even sold at all. In the year we have been looking, we were only able to view two houses. For the few other interesting properties, we were too late, even though we contacted the seller on the day the listing was posted. My girlfriend’s bank advisor indicated that they regularly receive triple-digit numbers of inquiries for houses in our area. Here you can find the old thread—basically, not much has changed: we have saved some money, but at the same time prices are rising (faster than we can save). We are still in a good position financially, but there are still very few properties available.
However, we actually have a viewing appointment this Thursday for a semi-detached house from 1925 in a perfect location (a beautiful, central quiet side cul-de-sac). We know the street and even dropped a letter with an inquiry in that very house (though the appointment came about through the bank). A large plot (1250 sqm (0.31 acres)) is included. So, in principle, it’s ideal.
The house (150 sqm (1615 sq ft), fully basemented, 2 full floors plus attic) needs complete renovation except for the hipped roof (1995). The heating, bathrooms, floors, windows, insulation, etc. all need work. The bank advisor reportedly walked through the house with a contractor who estimated renovation costs at about €175,000 (~$190,000), which seems very optimistic to us for everything that needs to be done. We will bring an architect/structural engineer to the appointment—she estimated the costs after reviewing the listing at around €400,000-500,000 (~$430,000-$540,000), depending on what needs or can be done with the basement. Personally, I would estimate the costs somewhere in the middle range of €300,000-350,000 (~$320,000-$375,000), and perhaps our architect included a bit of extra luxury? Well, we will know more on Thursday. The problem: €500,000 (~$540,000) is definitely beyond what we can or want to afford, €400,000 (~$430,000) is borderline, and anything below that would be manageable.
We will have to decide very quickly, so I wanted to open this topic here and gather some initial feedback. A few questions as preparation:
1) The house is completely empty. From the floor plan and photos, the kitchen is currently at the rear, and the living and dining rooms face the front. Since it's a full renovation, would moving the kitchen to the front have a significant impact on costs? Naively, I would think the pipes just need to be extended and that’s about it?
2) Another thing we don’t like is that there is currently no terrace at the back. Instead, the basement stairs lead out to the garden from the laundry room. Does it make sense or is it expensive to “seal off” the stairs and build a terrace above them (the kitchen is on the elevated ground floor)? We wouldn’t really need the stairs since there is also a shed in the garden.
3) Do you have a rough idea how much funding or subsidies one could receive for such a complete renovation? New regulations with significant amounts apply starting July 1st. As mentioned, new heating, windows, insulation… What standard would be realistic or sensible for a house like this?
4) Regarding semi-detached houses in general: Are roofs usually renovated together with the neighboring half? From the photos, it looks like that was done during the last renovation.
5) In a full renovation, are there still likely to be nasty surprises or is it relatively predictable when everything is going to be replaced and the risk of needing extra funding well manageable?
Thanks in advance for your input!
We have been actively searching for a house for a year now. Unfortunately, the situation here is very tense and prices are skyrocketing—if anything is even sold at all. In the year we have been looking, we were only able to view two houses. For the few other interesting properties, we were too late, even though we contacted the seller on the day the listing was posted. My girlfriend’s bank advisor indicated that they regularly receive triple-digit numbers of inquiries for houses in our area. Here you can find the old thread—basically, not much has changed: we have saved some money, but at the same time prices are rising (faster than we can save). We are still in a good position financially, but there are still very few properties available.
However, we actually have a viewing appointment this Thursday for a semi-detached house from 1925 in a perfect location (a beautiful, central quiet side cul-de-sac). We know the street and even dropped a letter with an inquiry in that very house (though the appointment came about through the bank). A large plot (1250 sqm (0.31 acres)) is included. So, in principle, it’s ideal.
The house (150 sqm (1615 sq ft), fully basemented, 2 full floors plus attic) needs complete renovation except for the hipped roof (1995). The heating, bathrooms, floors, windows, insulation, etc. all need work. The bank advisor reportedly walked through the house with a contractor who estimated renovation costs at about €175,000 (~$190,000), which seems very optimistic to us for everything that needs to be done. We will bring an architect/structural engineer to the appointment—she estimated the costs after reviewing the listing at around €400,000-500,000 (~$430,000-$540,000), depending on what needs or can be done with the basement. Personally, I would estimate the costs somewhere in the middle range of €300,000-350,000 (~$320,000-$375,000), and perhaps our architect included a bit of extra luxury? Well, we will know more on Thursday. The problem: €500,000 (~$540,000) is definitely beyond what we can or want to afford, €400,000 (~$430,000) is borderline, and anything below that would be manageable.
We will have to decide very quickly, so I wanted to open this topic here and gather some initial feedback. A few questions as preparation:
1) The house is completely empty. From the floor plan and photos, the kitchen is currently at the rear, and the living and dining rooms face the front. Since it's a full renovation, would moving the kitchen to the front have a significant impact on costs? Naively, I would think the pipes just need to be extended and that’s about it?
2) Another thing we don’t like is that there is currently no terrace at the back. Instead, the basement stairs lead out to the garden from the laundry room. Does it make sense or is it expensive to “seal off” the stairs and build a terrace above them (the kitchen is on the elevated ground floor)? We wouldn’t really need the stairs since there is also a shed in the garden.
3) Do you have a rough idea how much funding or subsidies one could receive for such a complete renovation? New regulations with significant amounts apply starting July 1st. As mentioned, new heating, windows, insulation… What standard would be realistic or sensible for a house like this?
4) Regarding semi-detached houses in general: Are roofs usually renovated together with the neighboring half? From the photos, it looks like that was done during the last renovation.
5) In a full renovation, are there still likely to be nasty surprises or is it relatively predictable when everything is going to be replaced and the risk of needing extra funding well manageable?
Thanks in advance for your input!
N
nordanney5 May 2021 14:27dankosos schrieb:
We have – I would say – somewhat higher standards, but certainly don’t need luxury features like colored windows or similar. However, the prices quoted for the renovation imply luxury.
dankosos schrieb:
A quick question (I don’t want to start a separate thread about this): We have about 40% of the total price including additional costs, including €300,000 (hypothetical!) renovation costs, available as equity. Is it possible to buy the house first without a detailed renovation plan, and reserve a large part of the equity for the renovation to be carried out without bank involvement? Or does the bank usually require a detailed plan for the entire project? If it could be done independently from the financing, it would relax the schedule a bit. Sure, that’s possible. But then it becomes a matter of terms, since the bank will only rely on the current condition. You might also be able to finance with a fixed interest rate for 2 years, use your equity to complete the renovation during that time, and then refinance the “new” house on a long-term basis. It’s all a calculation and a bet on interest rate developments. If the boom continues and interest rates remain low, the bank might say in 2 years the renovated house is worth €1.5 million and you could secure a great long-term loan. But it could also go the other way.
To clarify once more: I was only looking for a rough upward estimate of the renovation costs. Whether we keep the wooden floorboards or not hasn’t been decided yet! After 15 years of hardwood floors in our old apartment, I could well imagine putting something else in. That’s why I want a "what-if" scenario for each item, so I know I’m not overextending myself, even *if* I have everything done by professionals.
All I have is the agent’s statement that everything except the roof should be done, and for now, I have to accept that. What exactly that means (removing the floor vs. sanding it, replacing the stairs vs. just sprucing them up, which windows will be changed and how) can’t really be said yet. That’s why I think it’s a bit pointless to argue against it at this stage. Tomorrow, we’ll know a bit more.
The same goes for the question of what we can or want to do ourselves. We have a small child and another on the way, and honestly, I don’t want to take on too much, which I think is perfectly understandable. I’ve seen with my parents how much conflict potential there is—my father did everything himself, including building the kitchen, without any experience. The results were always great in the end, but the process was often difficult (for example, when my mother had to cook for five people on two hotplates in the bathroom for two months :eek 🙂.
To put the purchase price in perspective: unfortunately, everything is extremely expensive here. You can check postal code 37083 on common real estate platforms. Two weeks ago, we applied for a house in significantly worse condition, in a much less desirable location with a smaller lot—asking price was €560,000 (about $600,000), and there was a bidding war in which we didn’t even participate. Göttingen has the “problem” of being a relatively small university town with Sartorius, a soon-to-be DAX-listed company, which hires many well-paid employees every year and benefited greatly from the pandemic. Good for the city, bad for the housing market. Just last year, Sartorius hired around 1,600 new employees—not all in our city—but that’s a lot for a city of 130,000 residents, and this has been happening for years. On top of that, there are good rental yields from students, making it attractive for investors. It’s somewhat cheaper in the nearby villages (although these days, prices of €600,000 to €700,000 are common there as well, with the latest example a 200 m² (2,150 sq ft) house on a 600 m² (6,460 sq ft) lot for €900,000 (about $960,000)), but prices only drop significantly if you go 10–15 km (6–9 miles) out, where infrastructure worsens considerably because you’re no longer within the city limits—public transport runs only every one to two hours.
All I have is the agent’s statement that everything except the roof should be done, and for now, I have to accept that. What exactly that means (removing the floor vs. sanding it, replacing the stairs vs. just sprucing them up, which windows will be changed and how) can’t really be said yet. That’s why I think it’s a bit pointless to argue against it at this stage. Tomorrow, we’ll know a bit more.
The same goes for the question of what we can or want to do ourselves. We have a small child and another on the way, and honestly, I don’t want to take on too much, which I think is perfectly understandable. I’ve seen with my parents how much conflict potential there is—my father did everything himself, including building the kitchen, without any experience. The results were always great in the end, but the process was often difficult (for example, when my mother had to cook for five people on two hotplates in the bathroom for two months :eek 🙂.
To put the purchase price in perspective: unfortunately, everything is extremely expensive here. You can check postal code 37083 on common real estate platforms. Two weeks ago, we applied for a house in significantly worse condition, in a much less desirable location with a smaller lot—asking price was €560,000 (about $600,000), and there was a bidding war in which we didn’t even participate. Göttingen has the “problem” of being a relatively small university town with Sartorius, a soon-to-be DAX-listed company, which hires many well-paid employees every year and benefited greatly from the pandemic. Good for the city, bad for the housing market. Just last year, Sartorius hired around 1,600 new employees—not all in our city—but that’s a lot for a city of 130,000 residents, and this has been happening for years. On top of that, there are good rental yields from students, making it attractive for investors. It’s somewhat cheaper in the nearby villages (although these days, prices of €600,000 to €700,000 are common there as well, with the latest example a 200 m² (2,150 sq ft) house on a 600 m² (6,460 sq ft) lot for €900,000 (about $960,000)), but prices only drop significantly if you go 10–15 km (6–9 miles) out, where infrastructure worsens considerably because you’re no longer within the city limits—public transport runs only every one to two hours.
And one more thing, because I find this a bit unfair: we have the equity because my girlfriend’s father took care of a single neighbor for a long time, while her family basically stayed out of it. In return, he received their house as a gift, and when he passed away two years ago, it was then inherited by my girlfriend. So please relax with the “not your typical small DIY floor installer laminate flooring builder” comments here 🙂
We could debate the prices at length, but at first glance, it seems like you can afford it.
I think it's very positive that you estimated the costs on the high side rather than too low.
So go ahead, buy the house!
A good location and a dead-end street is already a lucky find. If there are other families with children of the same age, then that’s a jackpot.
I think it's very positive that you estimated the costs on the high side rather than too low.
So go ahead, buy the house!
A good location and a dead-end street is already a lucky find. If there are other families with children of the same age, then that’s a jackpot.
M
Myrna_Loy5 May 2021 15:25dankosos schrieb:
And one more addition, because I also find this a bit unfair: we have the equity because my girlfriend’s father took care of a single neighbor for a long time, while her family stayed out of it. In return, he received their house as a gift, and when he passed away two years ago, it was inherited by my girlfriend. So please relax with the “not the typical small DIY floor layer click laminate builder” comments 🙂That wasn’t the intention at all — but when the architect knows about a high equity, they tend to come up with maximum cost estimates. Everything you want sounds good and sensible. She said she’s keeping her fingers crossed — houses like these are wonderful for families.M
Myrna_Loy5 May 2021 15:27If I could choose, I would pick something exactly like that. However, here it usually costs closer to 2 million when it hits the market.