ᐅ City or countryside, new construction or renovation – the challenge of choosing!?
Created on: 2 Aug 2020 16:25
D
dankosos
Hello everyone,
I already started a thread in the financing section to estimate a possible loan range. Now we have roughly outlined that and are considering the options available to us.
Here’s a luxury problem:
We currently own two plots of land with rental properties on them. One is in the middle of the city (a 100 sqm (1,076 sq ft) terraced townhouse with a small garden directly on a main road), and the other about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city (a small detached single-family home, on nearly 1,000 sqm (10,764 sq ft) of land, in a quiet location). Additionally, we have €300,000 (including support from relatives) in cash equity plus around €50,000 set aside as a buffer for unexpected expenses in everyday life or on the houses, and a solid income that comfortably supports a loan of about €500,000 (more details in the financing thread).
We are now considering two options for our own home (goal: around 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) living space for 2 adults, 2 children, home office, and regular visitors):
Option A) We build the house about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city by expanding, renovating, or starting new. There is no longer a formal development plan there, but the neighborhood is quite mixed, and we are pretty sure we could create something we really like without rush. Another plus: With our equity, we’d only need a comparatively small loan (somewhere between €150,000 and at most €300,000) and would either be debt-free within 10-15 years (in our early/mid-40s) or have a long period of relatively low payments compared to our income. The village is quite sought-after, so we would also likely be able to sell the house well, if needed.
The biggest disadvantage is the location. I don’t work in the nearby city but commute around 250 km (155 miles) per office day, 240 km (149 miles) of that by high-speed train. It’s not a big deal as the train time is working time, and I was already able to work 2, sometimes 3 days from home before COVID, with the city station only 1.5 km (1 mile) away. However, if we moved to the village, the one-way distance to the station would be 8 km (5 miles), and the return trip is quite uphill. It’s certainly doable (I am quite fit cycling and would even welcome a somewhat longer bike ride than at present), especially if I can permanently work three days from home. But in everyday life with kids, it might not be so practical—for example, if my wife can’t leave work, I would easily need 1.5 hours at best to commute. Also, we would lose rental income from here (including terminating a tenancy by a tenant who has lived there since 1975—we aren’t in a hurry, but it just feels unpleasant...) and probably have underestimated the investment required. Therefore…
Option B) We buy an existing property in the city and renovate or expand it. The big, big downside here is the typically inflated and still very competitive property market. It will probably take years to find something, and when you do, you basically have to decide at the first viewing—which is quite stressful for us cautious people. Due to the high purchase price (with additional costs around €550,000 minimum, so a new build is off the table), we would likely have to make many compromises during the renovation based on what I have seen in similar projects.
But we could stay in the city, would only need one car, no monthly passes for the kids, etc.—which is a considerable advantage compared to the loan repayment—and overall, we would probably have more free time since we wouldn’t have to constantly drive the children to sports and other activities.
At the same time, one could argue a third option C): if we choose A, we could sell the property with the house there later and use the proceeds for option B. Then we could probably do everything in the city according to our wishes—and the final situation would be the same: instead of owning two rental homes, we would only have one, but in addition, a valuable house in the city. The only remaining problem would be finding a plot without unpleasant surprises…
Of course, I know this is ultimately our decision to make – but how would you approach it? Has anyone been in the same situation? Neither of us has ever lived in the countryside; what hidden costs might come up there that you wouldn’t have in the city?
I already started a thread in the financing section to estimate a possible loan range. Now we have roughly outlined that and are considering the options available to us.
Here’s a luxury problem:
We currently own two plots of land with rental properties on them. One is in the middle of the city (a 100 sqm (1,076 sq ft) terraced townhouse with a small garden directly on a main road), and the other about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city (a small detached single-family home, on nearly 1,000 sqm (10,764 sq ft) of land, in a quiet location). Additionally, we have €300,000 (including support from relatives) in cash equity plus around €50,000 set aside as a buffer for unexpected expenses in everyday life or on the houses, and a solid income that comfortably supports a loan of about €500,000 (more details in the financing thread).
We are now considering two options for our own home (goal: around 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) living space for 2 adults, 2 children, home office, and regular visitors):
Option A) We build the house about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city by expanding, renovating, or starting new. There is no longer a formal development plan there, but the neighborhood is quite mixed, and we are pretty sure we could create something we really like without rush. Another plus: With our equity, we’d only need a comparatively small loan (somewhere between €150,000 and at most €300,000) and would either be debt-free within 10-15 years (in our early/mid-40s) or have a long period of relatively low payments compared to our income. The village is quite sought-after, so we would also likely be able to sell the house well, if needed.
The biggest disadvantage is the location. I don’t work in the nearby city but commute around 250 km (155 miles) per office day, 240 km (149 miles) of that by high-speed train. It’s not a big deal as the train time is working time, and I was already able to work 2, sometimes 3 days from home before COVID, with the city station only 1.5 km (1 mile) away. However, if we moved to the village, the one-way distance to the station would be 8 km (5 miles), and the return trip is quite uphill. It’s certainly doable (I am quite fit cycling and would even welcome a somewhat longer bike ride than at present), especially if I can permanently work three days from home. But in everyday life with kids, it might not be so practical—for example, if my wife can’t leave work, I would easily need 1.5 hours at best to commute. Also, we would lose rental income from here (including terminating a tenancy by a tenant who has lived there since 1975—we aren’t in a hurry, but it just feels unpleasant...) and probably have underestimated the investment required. Therefore…
Option B) We buy an existing property in the city and renovate or expand it. The big, big downside here is the typically inflated and still very competitive property market. It will probably take years to find something, and when you do, you basically have to decide at the first viewing—which is quite stressful for us cautious people. Due to the high purchase price (with additional costs around €550,000 minimum, so a new build is off the table), we would likely have to make many compromises during the renovation based on what I have seen in similar projects.
But we could stay in the city, would only need one car, no monthly passes for the kids, etc.—which is a considerable advantage compared to the loan repayment—and overall, we would probably have more free time since we wouldn’t have to constantly drive the children to sports and other activities.
At the same time, one could argue a third option C): if we choose A, we could sell the property with the house there later and use the proceeds for option B. Then we could probably do everything in the city according to our wishes—and the final situation would be the same: instead of owning two rental homes, we would only have one, but in addition, a valuable house in the city. The only remaining problem would be finding a plot without unpleasant surprises…
Of course, I know this is ultimately our decision to make – but how would you approach it? Has anyone been in the same situation? Neither of us has ever lived in the countryside; what hidden costs might come up there that you wouldn’t have in the city?
S
Smirnoff19833 Aug 2020 14:11Joedreck schrieb:
I find it a bit odd to worry now about what will happen when the kids reach the "clubbing age." Honestly? I would choose the place where I feel most comfortable with my partner. Where we want to live and what benefits we have. The issue with the children will sort itself out. In the end, I might buy a house against my own preferences in the city, only for the child at 16 to tell me they’d rather game than go to clubs. I grew up in a rural area myself and was never asked. My wife and I also bought a plot of land in the countryside (with no visible neighbors in two directions).
But during my studies, I unfortunately experienced that some people think differently. You kept hearing about the advantages for the children.
A
Aphrodithe3 Aug 2020 16:27A population of 130,000 is not really a large city! That should make the decision even easier! You have access to all city amenities right outside your door, but also everything that makes village life special nearby. So it’s better to drive out to the farm shop than to have to go into the city for every little thing. Most proponents of village living haven’t built in the city due to a lack of or unaffordable land. Of course, I wouldn’t want to live in a city like Berlin either, but there are many medium-sized cities that are preferable to any village!
G
Gelbwoschdd3 Aug 2020 16:52Aphrodithe schrieb:
130,000 inhabitants is not really a large city! That should make the decision easier! You have all the amenities right on your doorstep, but also everything that makes a village special nearby! So it’s better to drive out to the farm shop than to have to go into the city for every little thing. Most supporters of village life simply couldn’t build in the city due to a lack of available or affordable land! Of course, I wouldn’t want to live in a big city like Berlin either, but there are many medium-sized cities that anyone would prefer over a village! I also know city dwellers who would like to move to the countryside if their job or social circle weren’t all based in the city.
I wouldn’t enjoy living in a medium-sized city as much as in a small town either. The nearest medium-sized city is less than 10m (6 miles) away, and the nearest large city is 30 to 45 minutes away, depending on where you want to go.
When I lived in a big city, I thought I’d go out every evening, but in the end, I only went out on weekends because after work I didn’t feel like doing anything. Also, I lost a lot of time due to traffic and congestion. Absolutely stressful...
Here in the small town, there is everything you need on a daily basis. I find the hardware store and shopping mall in the medium-sized city—things you don’t need that often anyway. And I can walk for one minute and be in nature, go mountain biking almost anywhere, and have all kinds of sports clubs in town. What more could you want?
Even if the plot had been cheaper in the big city than in the countryside, I would still prefer to move out of the big city again, especially with children, it’s much more relaxed. You know people, and you greet each other.
Here, you’re hardly ever confronted rudely, you have clean playgrounds, and as a woman or child, you can walk home alone after dark without fear.
Sure, public transport here is practically non-existent. However, there is a commuter train (S-Bahn) just 10 minutes away, running every 20 minutes into the big city. Since we have two cars anyway, we don’t really need it.
As a single person or couple in your 20s or 30s, the advantages of the city apply, maybe they will again in retirement—who knows? But with a family, the countryside offers much more freedom and quality of life than the anonymous, concrete-covered big city.
Aphrodithe schrieb:
A population of 130,000 is hardly a major city! That should make the decision even easier! You have the full range of services right on your doorstep, plus everything that makes village life appealing nearby! It’s preferable to drive to the farm shop than to have to go into town for every little thing. Most supporters of village life didn’t build in the city due to a lack of affordable or available land! Sure, I wouldn’t want to live in a city like Berlin either, but there are many medium-sized cities that most people would prefer over a village! That is simply an unfounded assumption. There are plenty of villages with good infrastructure, so you can easily avoid the “hassles” of city life. Many villages in my area are well equipped with grocery stores, doctors, pharmacies, restaurants, etc. In those cases, a 40-minute trip (whether by car or train) to the city of Hanover is a reasonable compromise.
I lived in a city when I was younger and deliberately chose that it wasn’t for me.
And I am certainly not the only one.
P
pagoni20203 Aug 2020 17:24Especially in Germany, I have noticed that even small communities often have very good infrastructure when it comes to schools, pharmacies, gas stations, and especially grocery stores.
I lived for a long time in a community of about 3,000 residents and there were a doctor, dentist, pharmacy, two bakeries, butcher, supermarket, gas station, post office agency, farm shop, poultry farm, elementary and secondary schools, a train station with a commuter train every 30 minutes, various clubs, and two medium-sized towns about 15 km (9 miles) away each with around 20,000 inhabitants. There you could find hardware stores, hospitals, a university, five grammar schools—one of which was English-speaking—along with all kinds of shops, etc.
Ultimately, it is true that you can always find something that you can only really experience in a very large city, but I live by the principle of what is frequent and what is rare, and options such as concerts of international stars or special dining experiences are rather rare.
I don’t want to convince anyone of the quality of life in the countryside, otherwise it would get too crowded out here. Besides, cities are simply noisier, which for me has become a deal-breaker.
...that may be true, at least in part, but that doesn’t exclude that moving to the countryside was still a good decision, even if that was the reason. I have experienced that colleagues who lived near their workplace in the city usually lived in conditions I never wanted and all of them had cars—despite public transport, they couldn’t take care of anything on foot, even though they lived in expensive city locations.
I lived for a long time in a community of about 3,000 residents and there were a doctor, dentist, pharmacy, two bakeries, butcher, supermarket, gas station, post office agency, farm shop, poultry farm, elementary and secondary schools, a train station with a commuter train every 30 minutes, various clubs, and two medium-sized towns about 15 km (9 miles) away each with around 20,000 inhabitants. There you could find hardware stores, hospitals, a university, five grammar schools—one of which was English-speaking—along with all kinds of shops, etc.
Ultimately, it is true that you can always find something that you can only really experience in a very large city, but I live by the principle of what is frequent and what is rare, and options such as concerts of international stars or special dining experiences are rather rare.
I don’t want to convince anyone of the quality of life in the countryside, otherwise it would get too crowded out here. Besides, cities are simply noisier, which for me has become a deal-breaker.
Aphrodithe schrieb:
Most supporters of village life have not built in the city due to a lack of affordable or available land!
...that may be true, at least in part, but that doesn’t exclude that moving to the countryside was still a good decision, even if that was the reason. I have experienced that colleagues who lived near their workplace in the city usually lived in conditions I never wanted and all of them had cars—despite public transport, they couldn’t take care of anything on foot, even though they lived in expensive city locations.
So you see, a city is not just a city, and a village is not just a village—and there are also significant differences within cities. For me, it is important that a certain level of infrastructure is available. Certainly, rural areas are not as anonymous as large cities. This also has its advantages and disadvantages. Children grow up well everywhere; we are not talking about problematic neighborhoods.