ᐅ City or countryside, new construction or renovation – the challenge of choosing!?
Created on: 2 Aug 2020 16:25
D
dankosos
Hello everyone,
I already started a thread in the financing section to estimate a possible loan range. Now we have roughly outlined that and are considering the options available to us.
Here’s a luxury problem:
We currently own two plots of land with rental properties on them. One is in the middle of the city (a 100 sqm (1,076 sq ft) terraced townhouse with a small garden directly on a main road), and the other about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city (a small detached single-family home, on nearly 1,000 sqm (10,764 sq ft) of land, in a quiet location). Additionally, we have €300,000 (including support from relatives) in cash equity plus around €50,000 set aside as a buffer for unexpected expenses in everyday life or on the houses, and a solid income that comfortably supports a loan of about €500,000 (more details in the financing thread).
We are now considering two options for our own home (goal: around 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) living space for 2 adults, 2 children, home office, and regular visitors):
Option A) We build the house about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city by expanding, renovating, or starting new. There is no longer a formal development plan there, but the neighborhood is quite mixed, and we are pretty sure we could create something we really like without rush. Another plus: With our equity, we’d only need a comparatively small loan (somewhere between €150,000 and at most €300,000) and would either be debt-free within 10-15 years (in our early/mid-40s) or have a long period of relatively low payments compared to our income. The village is quite sought-after, so we would also likely be able to sell the house well, if needed.
The biggest disadvantage is the location. I don’t work in the nearby city but commute around 250 km (155 miles) per office day, 240 km (149 miles) of that by high-speed train. It’s not a big deal as the train time is working time, and I was already able to work 2, sometimes 3 days from home before COVID, with the city station only 1.5 km (1 mile) away. However, if we moved to the village, the one-way distance to the station would be 8 km (5 miles), and the return trip is quite uphill. It’s certainly doable (I am quite fit cycling and would even welcome a somewhat longer bike ride than at present), especially if I can permanently work three days from home. But in everyday life with kids, it might not be so practical—for example, if my wife can’t leave work, I would easily need 1.5 hours at best to commute. Also, we would lose rental income from here (including terminating a tenancy by a tenant who has lived there since 1975—we aren’t in a hurry, but it just feels unpleasant...) and probably have underestimated the investment required. Therefore…
Option B) We buy an existing property in the city and renovate or expand it. The big, big downside here is the typically inflated and still very competitive property market. It will probably take years to find something, and when you do, you basically have to decide at the first viewing—which is quite stressful for us cautious people. Due to the high purchase price (with additional costs around €550,000 minimum, so a new build is off the table), we would likely have to make many compromises during the renovation based on what I have seen in similar projects.
But we could stay in the city, would only need one car, no monthly passes for the kids, etc.—which is a considerable advantage compared to the loan repayment—and overall, we would probably have more free time since we wouldn’t have to constantly drive the children to sports and other activities.
At the same time, one could argue a third option C): if we choose A, we could sell the property with the house there later and use the proceeds for option B. Then we could probably do everything in the city according to our wishes—and the final situation would be the same: instead of owning two rental homes, we would only have one, but in addition, a valuable house in the city. The only remaining problem would be finding a plot without unpleasant surprises…
Of course, I know this is ultimately our decision to make – but how would you approach it? Has anyone been in the same situation? Neither of us has ever lived in the countryside; what hidden costs might come up there that you wouldn’t have in the city?
I already started a thread in the financing section to estimate a possible loan range. Now we have roughly outlined that and are considering the options available to us.
Here’s a luxury problem:
We currently own two plots of land with rental properties on them. One is in the middle of the city (a 100 sqm (1,076 sq ft) terraced townhouse with a small garden directly on a main road), and the other about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city (a small detached single-family home, on nearly 1,000 sqm (10,764 sq ft) of land, in a quiet location). Additionally, we have €300,000 (including support from relatives) in cash equity plus around €50,000 set aside as a buffer for unexpected expenses in everyday life or on the houses, and a solid income that comfortably supports a loan of about €500,000 (more details in the financing thread).
We are now considering two options for our own home (goal: around 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) living space for 2 adults, 2 children, home office, and regular visitors):
Option A) We build the house about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city by expanding, renovating, or starting new. There is no longer a formal development plan there, but the neighborhood is quite mixed, and we are pretty sure we could create something we really like without rush. Another plus: With our equity, we’d only need a comparatively small loan (somewhere between €150,000 and at most €300,000) and would either be debt-free within 10-15 years (in our early/mid-40s) or have a long period of relatively low payments compared to our income. The village is quite sought-after, so we would also likely be able to sell the house well, if needed.
The biggest disadvantage is the location. I don’t work in the nearby city but commute around 250 km (155 miles) per office day, 240 km (149 miles) of that by high-speed train. It’s not a big deal as the train time is working time, and I was already able to work 2, sometimes 3 days from home before COVID, with the city station only 1.5 km (1 mile) away. However, if we moved to the village, the one-way distance to the station would be 8 km (5 miles), and the return trip is quite uphill. It’s certainly doable (I am quite fit cycling and would even welcome a somewhat longer bike ride than at present), especially if I can permanently work three days from home. But in everyday life with kids, it might not be so practical—for example, if my wife can’t leave work, I would easily need 1.5 hours at best to commute. Also, we would lose rental income from here (including terminating a tenancy by a tenant who has lived there since 1975—we aren’t in a hurry, but it just feels unpleasant...) and probably have underestimated the investment required. Therefore…
Option B) We buy an existing property in the city and renovate or expand it. The big, big downside here is the typically inflated and still very competitive property market. It will probably take years to find something, and when you do, you basically have to decide at the first viewing—which is quite stressful for us cautious people. Due to the high purchase price (with additional costs around €550,000 minimum, so a new build is off the table), we would likely have to make many compromises during the renovation based on what I have seen in similar projects.
But we could stay in the city, would only need one car, no monthly passes for the kids, etc.—which is a considerable advantage compared to the loan repayment—and overall, we would probably have more free time since we wouldn’t have to constantly drive the children to sports and other activities.
At the same time, one could argue a third option C): if we choose A, we could sell the property with the house there later and use the proceeds for option B. Then we could probably do everything in the city according to our wishes—and the final situation would be the same: instead of owning two rental homes, we would only have one, but in addition, a valuable house in the city. The only remaining problem would be finding a plot without unpleasant surprises…
Of course, I know this is ultimately our decision to make – but how would you approach it? Has anyone been in the same situation? Neither of us has ever lived in the countryside; what hidden costs might come up there that you wouldn’t have in the city?
We also decided on a village... (okay, we have our own train station with connections to several major cities, various bus lines going in all directions, etc., but it’s still a village).
What is becoming increasingly common, and is already widely established, are delivery services. Beverages are exclusively delivered by the bottle service, not more expensive than buying them at the local store, but without the need to carry them. Since it feels like every second person orders this way now, it is actually more environmentally friendly than each person driving individually...
Bread rolls come from the bread delivery service (then fresh rolls are hung on my front door in the morning...), and in many areas you can have complete supermarket shopping delivered (but since I enjoy shopping myself, this is not a solution for me at the moment).
Around us, there are numerous farms where I can get various products directly from the source... it takes time, but I enjoy it and it feels good. This wouldn’t be possible in the city, or only to a much more limited extent.
The city was my preferred model in my “wild” years. Now, with a family, my priorities have changed so much that I would gain no benefits from living in the city, and would even face significant disadvantages, but of course, everyone is different.
What is becoming increasingly common, and is already widely established, are delivery services. Beverages are exclusively delivered by the bottle service, not more expensive than buying them at the local store, but without the need to carry them. Since it feels like every second person orders this way now, it is actually more environmentally friendly than each person driving individually...
Bread rolls come from the bread delivery service (then fresh rolls are hung on my front door in the morning...), and in many areas you can have complete supermarket shopping delivered (but since I enjoy shopping myself, this is not a solution for me at the moment).
Around us, there are numerous farms where I can get various products directly from the source... it takes time, but I enjoy it and it feels good. This wouldn’t be possible in the city, or only to a much more limited extent.
The city was my preferred model in my “wild” years. Now, with a family, my priorities have changed so much that I would gain no benefits from living in the city, and would even face significant disadvantages, but of course, everyone is different.
First of all, thank you very much for the many replies!
Isn’t everything from 100,000 officially considered a large city?
It is very important to us. That’s why a new development area is not an option. We definitely want space. Whether we can afford it is another question; it’s hard to say. It could work—but probably with compromises on the house’s features.
Well, our city doesn’t have districts yet. But generally that’s true—that’s exactly what I’m saying. For example, DIY stores: we have two here, but both are inconveniently located from our preferred neighborhood. Whether I drive 10 or 15 minutes (according to Maps) doesn’t really matter then.
Another example: the pediatrician is 2.5 meters (1.6 miles) away. So far, we’ve always gone by car (sometimes due to bad weather, sometimes running late, etc.). We do walk to the town center (old town, pedestrian zone), but that’s only 200 meters (220 yards).
Aphrodithe schrieb:
130,000 inhabitants is not really a large city! That should make the decision easier! You have the full range of services on your doorstep but also everything that makes village life nearby! So better to drive to the farm shop once in a while than having to go to the city for every little thing. Most supporters of village life haven’t built in the city because of a lack of affordable land! Of course, I wouldn’t want to live in a city like Berlin either, but there are many medium-sized cities that are preferable to any village!
Isn’t everything from 100,000 officially considered a large city?
Pinky0301 schrieb:
We are also moving out of Frankfurt to a nearby town with 10,000 inhabitants. I don’t exactly dislike the city, but I don’t need it either. Our wish was a large plot with a detached house and a proper garden. You simply don’t get that in a big city. @dankosos How is it for you? Can you even find a plot in the city that compares to one in the countryside? Or is that not important to you?
It is very important to us. That’s why a new development area is not an option. We definitely want space. Whether we can afford it is another question; it’s hard to say. It could work—but probably with compromises on the house’s features.
pagoni2020 schrieb:
My experience shows me that the argument of the car often does not hold true, and the shops you like to visit are not exactly next door, so you end up driving anyway—but then in city traffic with parking problems.
And… there’s a huge difference between types of rural life. Some rural dwellers actually have much better infrastructure than some city residents. Because of the many options, your trusted bakery might be in district A, the butcher in district B, and the shopping center in district C.
Well, our city doesn’t have districts yet. But generally that’s true—that’s exactly what I’m saying. For example, DIY stores: we have two here, but both are inconveniently located from our preferred neighborhood. Whether I drive 10 or 15 minutes (according to Maps) doesn’t really matter then.
Another example: the pediatrician is 2.5 meters (1.6 miles) away. So far, we’ve always gone by car (sometimes due to bad weather, sometimes running late, etc.). We do walk to the town center (old town, pedestrian zone), but that’s only 200 meters (220 yards).
One more addition: The local food infrastructure in the village is actually quite luxurious for a rural area. There is a large regional Rewe supermarket with a really good selection (better than our city Rewe; we went there today just to try it out) and its own beverage store. Plus, there are two bakeries, farm shops, and so on.
The village has a kindergarten including daycare, but after that, options become limited. The primary school is in the next village, 3.5 meters (2.2 miles) away, not really walkable. There are two riding clubs/schools right nearby, but as for other clubs, you can forget about them (only adult groups).
And my girlfriend rightly reminded me that we do a lot on foot as well (swimming, restaurants, her pregnancy/mommy courses—all within walking distance—plus, so far, many acquaintances are in the city and fewer in the villages).
The village has a kindergarten including daycare, but after that, options become limited. The primary school is in the next village, 3.5 meters (2.2 miles) away, not really walkable. There are two riding clubs/schools right nearby, but as for other clubs, you can forget about them (only adult groups).
And my girlfriend rightly reminded me that we do a lot on foot as well (swimming, restaurants, her pregnancy/mommy courses—all within walking distance—plus, so far, many acquaintances are in the city and fewer in the villages).
That is a decision that only you can make.
Regarding school
The school bus takes care of that. 3.5 km (2.2 miles) is not far. As far as I know, it runs according to school hours. Even now during the Corona school times.
In our area, the primary school is two villages away, and for about half the community, around six villages. The bus stops quite frequently. We have a bus stop three houses down the road. There is also one right in front of the after-school care center. The secondary school is in our village.
Students with special educational needs are picked up directly at the doorstep – the county town
Secondary modern school – county town
Grammar school – county town, large enough to cover all streams
Business school, vocational school – county town; buses also run to neighboring districts.
There are no disadvantaged areas or schools focused on problem neighborhoods. All social backgrounds are mixed.
Regarding school
The school bus takes care of that. 3.5 km (2.2 miles) is not far. As far as I know, it runs according to school hours. Even now during the Corona school times.
In our area, the primary school is two villages away, and for about half the community, around six villages. The bus stops quite frequently. We have a bus stop three houses down the road. There is also one right in front of the after-school care center. The secondary school is in our village.
Students with special educational needs are picked up directly at the doorstep – the county town
Secondary modern school – county town
Grammar school – county town, large enough to cover all streams
Business school, vocational school – county town; buses also run to neighboring districts.
There are no disadvantaged areas or schools focused on problem neighborhoods. All social backgrounds are mixed.