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tomthomson2 Aug 2017 14:22Hello everyone,
we are currently quite confused about the developments in the last few days regarding our house construction.
Brief background:
- House construction planning -> decision to carry out the entire build with an architect through all phases of service
- The architect conducted the entire design planning and, based on his suggestion, used property boundaries from an online tool. We were told that a survey could be skipped, with only the final stakeout of the house needing to be done by a surveyor.
Last week, the surveyor came to stake out the house and set his nails. Suddenly, the surveyor informed us that the right side of the property is unclear because it apparently was not correctly surveyed. (Since the plot is relatively narrow and the house relatively wide, this is an important factor, including easements etc., which we naturally want to avoid.)
The surveyor suggested requesting all documents from the land registry office, including any follow-up plans, as an initial discussion with the registry indicated the property might be 2 meters (6.5 feet) narrower than where the fences currently stand. With these documents, the surveyor would then re-measure the right side and check for old boundary markers in the ground.
So far so good. Today the surveyor came again and reported that everything is turning out well. The land registry apparently only had a clerical error concerning the 2 meters (6.5 feet) less, and the boundaries are exactly where we expected them to be, as the stones were found there too. Of course, this is a relief that makes me very happy. Otherwise, of course, frustration would have arisen about what the whole process was for.
The end result is that I have not been able to start my construction work; I canceled the excavator and other machinery, and now the surveyor presumably wants about 1000 euros for the stakeout. I suspect this will be the final amount since he did have to carry out his work, clerical error or not.
Are there any experts here who could just give an outside assessment? It doesn’t seem right to me that the land registry could ultimately force someone into additional surveying due to a clerical error. Can these costs, if they do occur, be claimed or challenged against them? The surveyor indicated he could not guarantee that the house could or would be allowed to be built with the unclear boundary...
Thank you in advance for your help.
we are currently quite confused about the developments in the last few days regarding our house construction.
Brief background:
- House construction planning -> decision to carry out the entire build with an architect through all phases of service
- The architect conducted the entire design planning and, based on his suggestion, used property boundaries from an online tool. We were told that a survey could be skipped, with only the final stakeout of the house needing to be done by a surveyor.
Last week, the surveyor came to stake out the house and set his nails. Suddenly, the surveyor informed us that the right side of the property is unclear because it apparently was not correctly surveyed. (Since the plot is relatively narrow and the house relatively wide, this is an important factor, including easements etc., which we naturally want to avoid.)
The surveyor suggested requesting all documents from the land registry office, including any follow-up plans, as an initial discussion with the registry indicated the property might be 2 meters (6.5 feet) narrower than where the fences currently stand. With these documents, the surveyor would then re-measure the right side and check for old boundary markers in the ground.
So far so good. Today the surveyor came again and reported that everything is turning out well. The land registry apparently only had a clerical error concerning the 2 meters (6.5 feet) less, and the boundaries are exactly where we expected them to be, as the stones were found there too. Of course, this is a relief that makes me very happy. Otherwise, of course, frustration would have arisen about what the whole process was for.
The end result is that I have not been able to start my construction work; I canceled the excavator and other machinery, and now the surveyor presumably wants about 1000 euros for the stakeout. I suspect this will be the final amount since he did have to carry out his work, clerical error or not.
Are there any experts here who could just give an outside assessment? It doesn’t seem right to me that the land registry could ultimately force someone into additional surveying due to a clerical error. Can these costs, if they do occur, be claimed or challenged against them? The surveyor indicated he could not guarantee that the house could or would be allowed to be built with the unclear boundary...
Thank you in advance for your help.
Marvinius II2 Aug 2017 14:441000 euros for the surveying seems rather reasonable. Your architect’s approach seems somewhat careless. Did you also skip the soil survey?
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tomthomson2 Aug 2017 15:11Possibly a misunderstanding. We are not talking about the overall cost or the house stakeout, but rather the surveying of one right boundary of the property. The other boundaries had already been correctly surveyed. Because if you had to survey all four boundaries (property is a rectangle), it certainly would not be “just” 1000 euros. My question is more as described in my post:
“In my opinion, it cannot be right that the land registry office ultimately forces someone to carry out an additional survey due to a clerical error. Can these costs, if they occur, be claimed back from them? This is the only reason the surveyor stated that he cannot guarantee that the house can or may be built as planned, due to the unclear boundary…”
“In my opinion, it cannot be right that the land registry office ultimately forces someone to carry out an additional survey due to a clerical error. Can these costs, if they occur, be claimed back from them? This is the only reason the surveyor stated that he cannot guarantee that the house can or may be built as planned, due to the unclear boundary…”
The question is who commissioned what and when, and whether this was documented in writing. If you commissioned a detailed site survey (setting out the building lines) and were given a fixed price, it is the contractor's responsibility to obtain the necessary documents. If there are actually discrepancies in the cadastral records, the surveyor must clarify this with the land registry office. However, there are many possibilities regarding who initiated which actions, ranging from a misunderstanding between the land registry office and the surveying company to a boundary that has not yet been determined. Therefore, you should first wait for the surveyor’s invoice. This should provide a detailed breakdown of the work performed and the corresponding costs. In my opinion, claims for damages due to the delayed schedule are not justified.
It is the architect’s responsibility to clearly determine all relevant information about the property at the start of the project (initial site analysis). This always includes verifying the cadastral documents. A building permit application requires a simple or official site plan from a licensed surveyor, for which the property should be surveyed if such a plan is not already available. Especially in cases where setback distances to property boundaries are maximized down to the centimeter, precise knowledge of the boundaries is essential. Simply measuring them from the online cadastre is far too imprecise and only suitable for preliminary sketches. Additionally, the architect needs site elevation data for planning the outdoor areas and drainage.
If the boundaries cannot be precisely located, a boundary verification or an official boundary marking (if necessary) must be carried out. Surveying services also include detailed staking out and as-built building measurements after completion. The architect must ensure this full package is offered. The costs are the responsibility of the client. If the architect waives certain surveying services, they bear the responsibility.
The cause of any confusion may have originated from the surveyor, or the cadastral office might have provided unclear information. I cannot say who should bear any additional costs. This is also why the architect should handle this matter and discuss with you how to proceed before any extra costs arise.
If the boundaries cannot be precisely located, a boundary verification or an official boundary marking (if necessary) must be carried out. Surveying services also include detailed staking out and as-built building measurements after completion. The architect must ensure this full package is offered. The costs are the responsibility of the client. If the architect waives certain surveying services, they bear the responsibility.
The cause of any confusion may have originated from the surveyor, or the cadastral office might have provided unclear information. I cannot say who should bear any additional costs. This is also why the architect should handle this matter and discuss with you how to proceed before any extra costs arise.
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