Dear Forum,
After much back and forth, I am still unsure about what to do.
It concerns a single-family house (9.50 x 11 m (31.2 x 36.1 ft)) built with solid construction.
The original idea was a turnkey project, but a friend suggested contracting individual trades to save money.
I want to source the following services from a single company (a shell construction company from our region):
- Two full floors
- KFW 55 energy standard
- Hipped roof with about a 20-degree pitch
- House with approximately 9.50 m by 11 m (31.2 ft by 36.1 ft) external dimensions
- Roof structure including roofing metalwork
- Planning application including building permits / planning permission
- Structural engineering (construction start notification)
- Windows
- Front door
- Construction management for our trades
This approach aims to ensure that the house at least “stands” completely and is weather-tight.
Question 1:
The offer for this is about €190,000. What do you think?
The same provider wants approximately €380,000 for the turnkey house (separate offer).
Question 2:
What do you think about the difference between €190,000 and €380,000?
Assuming I take only the basic construction stage and hire the trades myself, can I manage to stay under €190,000 (the difference between €380,000 and €190,000)?
Thank you very much
After much back and forth, I am still unsure about what to do.
It concerns a single-family house (9.50 x 11 m (31.2 x 36.1 ft)) built with solid construction.
The original idea was a turnkey project, but a friend suggested contracting individual trades to save money.
I want to source the following services from a single company (a shell construction company from our region):
- Two full floors
- KFW 55 energy standard
- Hipped roof with about a 20-degree pitch
- House with approximately 9.50 m by 11 m (31.2 ft by 36.1 ft) external dimensions
- Roof structure including roofing metalwork
- Planning application including building permits / planning permission
- Structural engineering (construction start notification)
- Windows
- Front door
- Construction management for our trades
This approach aims to ensure that the house at least “stands” completely and is weather-tight.
Question 1:
The offer for this is about €190,000. What do you think?
The same provider wants approximately €380,000 for the turnkey house (separate offer).
Question 2:
What do you think about the difference between €190,000 and €380,000?
Assuming I take only the basic construction stage and hire the trades myself, can I manage to stay under €190,000 (the difference between €380,000 and €190,000)?
Thank you very much
Hello,
@Ideensucher
The staircase, excavation, and foundation slab are included. 36.5cm (14 inches) masonry.
I can’t really do any of it myself, as I’m professionally busy. My father would coordinate it since he will be retired when construction starts.
I would hire all the contractors locally, as I’m from a village and we know the companies and some of their employees here and there.
@Ideensucher
The staircase, excavation, and foundation slab are included. 36.5cm (14 inches) masonry.
I can’t really do any of it myself, as I’m professionally busy. My father would coordinate it since he will be retired when construction starts.
I would hire all the contractors locally, as I’m from a village and we know the companies and some of their employees here and there.
S
Sparfuchs778 Jul 2020 10:09Ideensucher schrieb:
I think it came out around 100,000 It always depends on the conditions. Do I have contacts at the building materials supplier, tile installer, etc., and get special prices, or do I have to pay the list prices? Do I know the tradespeople personally and get friends and family discounts?
From what the original poster says, it sounds like they only want to contract out the other trades separately but don’t want to do any work themselves. It also doesn’t seem like they have the expertise. That means they would need a construction manager or an expert consultant... which is expensive and can quickly offset the financial benefits of contracting the trades separately.
XAMMAX2 schrieb:
My father would coordinate it since he will be retired when construction starts. Who supervises the technical side? Expertise is costly.
I coordinated all the trades myself, and once the shell construction was completed, we did everything ourselves (except plumbing). I had help from a family friend (an expert consultant/construction advisor). Without that, I wouldn’t have trusted myself to do it, and in hindsight, I wouldn’t have managed it.
If my assumptions are correct, I don’t think the original poster will save much money in the end...
That can sometimes work... or it might not.
If you have little experience and little time yourself, the risk of things ending up in chaos is high.
Alternatively, you could hire an architect. They would take care of site supervision, etc., but that comes at a cost.
Whether the price is right or not—how is one supposed to judge that? In general, it could be reasonable. For anything more precise, as already mentioned, you would need to provide the detailed construction specification. Only then can someone tell you if something is missing or not, or at best give you an idea if it looks roughly okay.
You will only find out if hiring trades separately is cheaper once the project is finished.
Prices vary greatly depending on the region.
Just as an example: front door? Plastic/wood/aluminum?
If you have little experience and little time yourself, the risk of things ending up in chaos is high.
Alternatively, you could hire an architect. They would take care of site supervision, etc., but that comes at a cost.
Whether the price is right or not—how is one supposed to judge that? In general, it could be reasonable. For anything more precise, as already mentioned, you would need to provide the detailed construction specification. Only then can someone tell you if something is missing or not, or at best give you an idea if it looks roughly okay.
You will only find out if hiring trades separately is cheaper once the project is finished.
Prices vary greatly depending on the region.
Just as an example: front door? Plastic/wood/aluminum?
S
Sparfuchs778 Jul 2020 10:17@XAMMAX2
The only way to find out where you get a better deal is to take the detailed scope of work for the shell construction and the turnkey house and compare them very carefully. Anything that is missing, you should get quotes for from local tradespeople.
In both cases, add a buffer of €50,000 (about $54,000) and then compare. Unfortunately, there is no other way. Keep in mind that if you opt for individual contracts, you may also need to hire an expert inspector or construction supervisor for the phase after the shell construction.
The only way to find out where you get a better deal is to take the detailed scope of work for the shell construction and the turnkey house and compare them very carefully. Anything that is missing, you should get quotes for from local tradespeople.
In both cases, add a buffer of €50,000 (about $54,000) and then compare. Unfortunately, there is no other way. Keep in mind that if you opt for individual contracts, you may also need to hire an expert inspector or construction supervisor for the phase after the shell construction.
H
hampshire8 Jul 2020 10:22Whether subcontracting individually is ultimately cheaper cannot be said in general. In my opinion, the more customized you build, the more advantageous individual subcontracting becomes.
We subcontracted individually and organized construction supervision as follows:
The construction phase was a very happy period in our lives and largely stress-free. Considering the quality, individuality, and flexibility during building, we now have a house that we certainly could not have gotten from a turnkey provider – especially not at this price.
We subcontracted individually and organized construction supervision as follows:
- We subcontracted earthworks and foundation work up to the concrete slab and hillside support, including piping for utility connections to the street, to a local company. We frequently visited the site, provided support and praise to the workers, thanked them, and asked them to explain what was happening. Cost drivers were soil class 7 conditions and the hillside location.
- All other local companies were selected together with the carpentry team that built the house. (In your case, this would be the main builder.) They included 100 extra hours for construction coordination (scheduling, coordinating trades) in their offer. We were involved as described above and agreed on detailed executions with each company (materials, fittings, colors, ideas we had, proposals from the contractors that we accepted or rejected). Cost drivers here were our detailed decisions that went beyond the original scope (clay plaster mixed with straw, larch wood cladding, special wood flooring, unique tiles, additional outdoor water taps, Italian glass mosaic, special lighting, switch programs…).
- We supplied some materials ourselves because they were not available from the contractors. Overall, this was still attractive to the tradespeople for the entire project.
- We accepted higher hourly rates because the best quality cannot be achieved by employing only the cheapest labor.
- Each company is allowed to use our house as a reference project for future clients. Since the house attracted attention and was a topic of conversation in the region due to its location and appearance throughout construction, this was an incentive for everyone involved from the start.
The construction phase was a very happy period in our lives and largely stress-free. Considering the quality, individuality, and flexibility during building, we now have a house that we certainly could not have gotten from a turnkey provider – especially not at this price.
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