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YuccaPalme20 Dec 2013 19:25Hello forum members,
My question is related to buying a house and not directly about house building, so it might be in the wrong section.
I am considering buying a small, old, and very cheap house with land in 1-2 years (priced between 10,000 and 50,000 euros) and renovating it accordingly, as well as partially expanding it (for example, adding a conservatory). I have heard quite a lot of negative things about buying a cheap house, especially if it requires extensive renovation—issues like hidden mold, leaking walls or ceilings, and so on. Usually, a listing mentions what is wrong with the house, but how can you be sure that nothing is being concealed? (As you can see, my knowledge is rather limited.)
Would renovating the house (without expanding it) cost more than buying a house of the same size and location that does not need renovation? To put it directly, does it even make sense, or has anyone done this before?
It might not be possible to generalize, but does anyone have experience with houses in “poor to very poor” condition? What are the pros and cons in your opinion?
I hope someone can help me... thank you in advance.
My question is related to buying a house and not directly about house building, so it might be in the wrong section.
I am considering buying a small, old, and very cheap house with land in 1-2 years (priced between 10,000 and 50,000 euros) and renovating it accordingly, as well as partially expanding it (for example, adding a conservatory). I have heard quite a lot of negative things about buying a cheap house, especially if it requires extensive renovation—issues like hidden mold, leaking walls or ceilings, and so on. Usually, a listing mentions what is wrong with the house, but how can you be sure that nothing is being concealed? (As you can see, my knowledge is rather limited.)
Would renovating the house (without expanding it) cost more than buying a house of the same size and location that does not need renovation? To put it directly, does it even make sense, or has anyone done this before?
It might not be possible to generalize, but does anyone have experience with houses in “poor to very poor” condition? What are the pros and cons in your opinion?
I hope someone can help me... thank you in advance.
Pros:
Possible desired location, plot size, little own capital required.
Cons:
Usually very inflexible, certain things must remain as they are, legal non-conformity protection, etc.
Possibly too small, damp, energy efficiency a nightmare, etc.
and [B]after renovation, in the end definitely just as expensive as a new build...[/B]
Possible desired location, plot size, little own capital required.
Cons:
Usually very inflexible, certain things must remain as they are, legal non-conformity protection, etc.
Possibly too small, damp, energy efficiency a nightmare, etc.
and [B]after renovation, in the end definitely just as expensive as a new build...[/B]
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nordanney20 Dec 2013 20:24The price you have in mind can probably be determined like this: property value minus demolition costs!
Mycraft has already mentioned the pros. Otherwise, I wouldn’t bother, as the costs for a complete renovation will actually be comparable to new construction costs (often even higher).
I often find that a “just” renovation-needed house still has features largely from the original build year. If the structure is solid, renovation might make sense (for example, old villas from the early 20th century here in the Ruhr area). But then you will have to pay significantly more...
Mycraft has already mentioned the pros. Otherwise, I wouldn’t bother, as the costs for a complete renovation will actually be comparable to new construction costs (often even higher).
I often find that a “just” renovation-needed house still has features largely from the original build year. If the structure is solid, renovation might make sense (for example, old villas from the early 20th century here in the Ruhr area). But then you will have to pay significantly more...
Hi,
the question naturally also depends on what you expect from a house. Here with us (Saxony / Saxony-Anhalt), there are many houses from the post-war period. Back then, building materials were scarce. So what did people do? They just patched together whatever was available. That means you find railway sleepers used as beams in the ceilings and all kinds of different bricks. Then there are the old East German houses. Well – they can be solid, but they rarely win any beauty contests. Another type are the traditional clay houses of the old farmers. These are crooked and uneven, damp and with low ceilings. That can obviously be "quaint" or "cozy," depending on your taste. This category also includes the old half-timbered houses, where you can sometimes find a bargain.
What would really be worthwhile, though, are the old villas and manor houses in rural areas. You can tell them apart because it wasn’t just farmers sticking clay together. Real building experts worked on these – the windows are aligned, the floor plan makes sense, staircases, rooms, and walls are well planned and proportioned. With some luck, someone has at least kept the roof watertight, so not everything is completely decayed. In our research, we also came across a few hidden gems. However, many of these properties are huge (at least for us) – around 200 to 300m² (2,150 to 3,230 sq ft). They can sometimes be very cheap to buy, but renovations almost always cost more than building new. On the plus side, you end up with an absolutely fantastic house. Usually with a full basement, roof, enormous plot of land, often stunning staircases and old wooden doors, high ceilings, large rooms, and so on. But all this needs to be maintained (heating?) and of course paid for.
the question naturally also depends on what you expect from a house. Here with us (Saxony / Saxony-Anhalt), there are many houses from the post-war period. Back then, building materials were scarce. So what did people do? They just patched together whatever was available. That means you find railway sleepers used as beams in the ceilings and all kinds of different bricks. Then there are the old East German houses. Well – they can be solid, but they rarely win any beauty contests. Another type are the traditional clay houses of the old farmers. These are crooked and uneven, damp and with low ceilings. That can obviously be "quaint" or "cozy," depending on your taste. This category also includes the old half-timbered houses, where you can sometimes find a bargain.
What would really be worthwhile, though, are the old villas and manor houses in rural areas. You can tell them apart because it wasn’t just farmers sticking clay together. Real building experts worked on these – the windows are aligned, the floor plan makes sense, staircases, rooms, and walls are well planned and proportioned. With some luck, someone has at least kept the roof watertight, so not everything is completely decayed. In our research, we also came across a few hidden gems. However, many of these properties are huge (at least for us) – around 200 to 300m² (2,150 to 3,230 sq ft). They can sometimes be very cheap to buy, but renovations almost always cost more than building new. On the plus side, you end up with an absolutely fantastic house. Usually with a full basement, roof, enormous plot of land, often stunning staircases and old wooden doors, high ceilings, large rooms, and so on. But all this needs to be maintained (heating?) and of course paid for.
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YuccaPalme21 Dec 2013 15:19kaho: I want the layout of the house to make sense, and the ceilings definitely shouldn’t be too low—at least as high as in a standard apartment, which I think is about 2.5 meters (8 feet 2 inches). As for aesthetics, you can certainly improve both the interior and exterior with paint and by "filling in holes" (if anything is chipped off, not actual holes, because otherwise it would be drafty)...
What you mentioned about what was installed and so on is interesting... I hadn’t really thought that far, about the "history" of each house. So it would be important for me to catch up on that.
These villas and old manor houses you mentioned... what price range are they in? At least the ones you saw.
What kind of house did you end up choosing? And what condition was the house in, etc.?
The property transfer tax and property tax are based on the value of the property. That means if I buy a property for, say, 50,000 € (about 54,000 USD), instead of 150,000 € (about 161,000 USD), those two taxes would be significantly different... So this would be an advantage for cheaper houses, especially for the property tax, which you have to pay annually for the rest of your life. Or does the property tax change once I renovate the house, meaning if its value increases? Or does the property tax stay the same?
What you mentioned about what was installed and so on is interesting... I hadn’t really thought that far, about the "history" of each house. So it would be important for me to catch up on that.
These villas and old manor houses you mentioned... what price range are they in? At least the ones you saw.
What kind of house did you end up choosing? And what condition was the house in, etc.?
The property transfer tax and property tax are based on the value of the property. That means if I buy a property for, say, 50,000 € (about 54,000 USD), instead of 150,000 € (about 161,000 USD), those two taxes would be significantly different... So this would be an advantage for cheaper houses, especially for the property tax, which you have to pay annually for the rest of your life. Or does the property tax change once I renovate the house, meaning if its value increases? Or does the property tax stay the same?
Why do you believe you don’t need financing? You’re talking about a house where it’s easy to invest another 100,000 to 250,000... Such a house is often a bottomless pit for its owners. Eventually, the bank won’t cooperate anymore when it comes to small, incremental bills... and you want to be able to live in it at some point.
Property transfer tax is something different from property tax; the former will be the same for a new build.
Property transfer tax is something different from property tax; the former will be the same for a new build.
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