ᐅ Increase in pressure in cold water line during hot water heating-up

Created on: 7 Apr 2023 20:55
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de_mic_ous
Hello everyone,
we have been living in our house, built in 2006, for one year now. Since moving in, I and two heating specialists have been struggling with the following unresolved issue (please pay close attention to the distinction between hot water (HW) and cold water (CW)):

Regarding the installation:
On the ground floor: the cold water pipe enters the house → water meter → shut-off valve → pressure reducer, set to 3.5 bar (51 psi) → cold water pipe continues...
On the upper floor: heating room with gas boiler Viessmann Vitodens 200 and Vitocell hot water storage tank. The problem only concerns the hot water part, so I will describe this in more detail: The hot water tank has a non-return valve combined with a backflow preventer on the cold water supply line, as well as an 8 bar (116 psi) safety valve. Then, of course, the outgoing hot water pipe including a shut-off valve and a circulation line with (presumably defective backflow preventer—more on this later) as well as the circulation pump. There is no expansion vessel installed for the hot water part of the heating system. There is no separate pressure gauge on the hot water tank.

Regarding the problem:
Every time the hot water tank is heated, the pressure at the pressure reducer on the ground floor (i.e., on the cold water line) rises until the 8 bar (116 psi) safety valve on the cold water inlet of the hot water tank activates and discharges water. It is clear that water expands when heated and has to go somewhere, but it must not flow back into the cold water line. I should therefore not see this expansion (=pressure increase) at the pressure reducer on the cold water supply line on the ground floor.

Both heating specialists initially say the same thing: hot water is somehow pushing back into the cold water when heated. They also say there are theoretically only “two” points where hot water could flow into the cold water:
a) At the cold water inlet to the hot water tank
b) In any of the installed fittings
—> Otherwise, there is no direct contact point between cold water and hot water in the entire installation.

Previous, unfortunately unsuccessful, measures:
1. The non-return valve on the cold water supply to the tank was replaced. When this valve is closed, no hot water flows through it, so it closes properly. Nevertheless, the problem described above still occurs even when this valve is fully closed. Therefore, in my understanding, this point can be excluded as the cause.
2. I have replaced four fittings so far, starting with the oldest. These were three single-lever mixers, replaced by Hansgrohe single-lever mixers, as well as one exposed thermostat fitting in the shower, also replaced by Hansgrohe. Unfortunately, no improvement; the problem still occurs.

Further observations:
If I close both the cold water inlet and the hot water outlet from the tank, the problem still occurs! From this, I conclude that the backflow preventer on the circulation line must be defective, as this is the only remaining path that water can take. Unfortunately, I cannot shut off this line (yet). In principle, I think it does not matter, since there should be no connection between hot water and cold water here.

Now to my questions:
1. Would you agree with the hypothesis that only one fitting can allow hot water to flow into the cold water?
2. If yes, is there a way to locate the fitting responsible?
3. Am I overlooking something? Any misconceptions?

After a year of trial and error, I am very grateful for any advice.

Thank you in advance!
D
de_mic_ous
8 Apr 2023 17:20
In theory, it's simple, but in practice, a bit complicated to carry out. I have to unscrew/seal off the bathroom faucet. Even more complicated is the bathtub edge faucet. I can’t reach the angle valves there... In the end, if it wasn’t one of the other faucets, I’ll have no choice but to replace the cartridge... Thanks so far for the support!
KingJulien8 Apr 2023 17:54
Exactly, at least you can rule out the standard off-the-shelf faucets. Please keep us updated.
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de_mic_ous
8 Apr 2023 18:34
Now, come on. Although I feel like I’ve tried about 100 times to shut off the cold water supply to the boiler, I simply gave it another shot today, but with one difference:

AFTER closing the valve, I checked whether the thermostatic mixing valve (TMV) actually closed properly by running some hot water until no more hot water came out (2-3 seconds).

During the heating process, there is NOW NO pressure drop at the pressure reducer!

Can it automatically be concluded from this that the check valve in the supply line is faulty? I would find that very surprising. The valve cartridge of the TMV was just recently replaced...

Or is it possible that the hot water can no longer reach the fixture because there is effectively no pressure left in the hot water line?
KingJulien8 Apr 2023 18:46
de_mic_ous schrieb:

Or is it possible that the hot water can no longer reach the faucet because, in fact, there was no longer any pressure in the hot water pipe?
I would say yes.
Three more words.
D
de_mic_ous
8 Apr 2023 18:59
Thanks for the assessment!
But just three more words?
KingJulien8 Apr 2023 19:02
So I could submit the post 😀