ᐅ Photovoltaic Systems & Energy Storage *General Discussion Thread*
Created on: 27 Jan 2015 15:13
H
Häuslebau3r
Hello everyone,
Since I have come across a few posts in other threads here in the forum regarding energy storage systems for photovoltaic installations and I am personally very interested in the topic, I found some more information during my research online.
Until now, I really believed that due to the currently low electricity prices compared to battery storage systems, these are not cost-effective.
The following study mainly refers to theoretical data and calculations. Nevertheless, it clearly shows how the situation can vary under different conditions.
On page 13, you will find a table with the various systems considered.
Under section 3.4.3
- it is mentioned, for example, that a photovoltaic system with storage has a feed-in power limit set at 60%.
Under section 4.2
- the system sizing is well compared.
Under section 4.5.1
- different financing examples are listed again, also taking into account KfW funding, along with various electricity price increases.
The best storage system was the Senec Home G2. Senec was able to offer such a competitive price due to the affordable replacement battery and inverter. Has anyone already installed one or informed themselves about it, or can share more general information on the topic?
Hopefully, this information is helpful to others as well.
Best regards,
Andi
Since I have come across a few posts in other threads here in the forum regarding energy storage systems for photovoltaic installations and I am personally very interested in the topic, I found some more information during my research online.
Until now, I really believed that due to the currently low electricity prices compared to battery storage systems, these are not cost-effective.
The following study mainly refers to theoretical data and calculations. Nevertheless, it clearly shows how the situation can vary under different conditions.
On page 13, you will find a table with the various systems considered.
Under section 3.4.3
- it is mentioned, for example, that a photovoltaic system with storage has a feed-in power limit set at 60%.
Under section 4.2
- the system sizing is well compared.
Under section 4.5.1
- different financing examples are listed again, also taking into account KfW funding, along with various electricity price increases.
The best storage system was the Senec Home G2. Senec was able to offer such a competitive price due to the affordable replacement battery and inverter. Has anyone already installed one or informed themselves about it, or can share more general information on the topic?
Hopefully, this information is helpful to others as well.
Best regards,
Andi
Häuslebau3r29 Jan 2015 18:08Good evening everyone,
as mentioned above, this is not meant to be covert advertising for any brand or anything else. I just wanted to bring up this general topic again to possibly generate more clarity as well as news and information 🙂
Of course, there are definitely many studies commissioned and promoted by manufacturers.
@ Bauexperte, 7000 charge cycles is really a significant number when calculated over 20 years. Are these lithium-ion batteries or regular ones?
as mentioned above, this is not meant to be covert advertising for any brand or anything else. I just wanted to bring up this general topic again to possibly generate more clarity as well as news and information 🙂
Of course, there are definitely many studies commissioned and promoted by manufacturers.
@ Bauexperte, 7000 charge cycles is really a significant number when calculated over 20 years. Are these lithium-ion batteries or regular ones?
B
Bauexperte29 Jan 2015 18:11Good evening,
Lithium-ion batteries.
Regards, Bauexperte
Bauexperte
Lithium-ion batteries.
Regards, Bauexperte
Bauexperte
I wouldn’t choose lead-acid batteries anymore; lithium batteries are not much more expensive nowadays.
I did the calculations back in early 2013, and after subsidies, the cost per kWh was around 40 cents with lithium-ion batteries. Since then, prices have dropped significantly.
The more you can increase self-consumption, the better—today, up to 80% of the electricity demand can be covered by the storage system in an energy-efficient house with a heat pump.
I believe that over the course of the year, the cost per kWh from batteries and the grid will converge, unless something unusual happens.
I did the calculations back in early 2013, and after subsidies, the cost per kWh was around 40 cents with lithium-ion batteries. Since then, prices have dropped significantly.
The more you can increase self-consumption, the better—today, up to 80% of the electricity demand can be covered by the storage system in an energy-efficient house with a heat pump.
I believe that over the course of the year, the cost per kWh from batteries and the grid will converge, unless something unusual happens.
The question is whether it is still necessary... Houses are being built increasingly energy-efficient, technical devices are becoming more economical and most of them can be programmed to operate at times when electricity is produced during the day (though of course not every day)... Lighting is more efficient, and so on and so forth... Do standard households really need these kinds of batteries?
But that’s just like asking whether a highly efficient house really needs an expensive geothermal system, and so on...
Everything can be justified with some creative reasoning 😉
But that’s just like asking whether a highly efficient house really needs an expensive geothermal system, and so on...
Everything can be justified with some creative reasoning 😉
I am not sure if the safety regulations have been updated recently, but lithium-ion batteries can pose significant hazards. Apparently, there are still no adequate regulations (electrical safety regulations for workrooms vary by country), and nowadays, anyone can apparently store these batteries relatively unprotected in their basement. Just search for “hazards and lithium batteries” online for more detailed information than I can provide here.
Since I work for a logistics company, I remember all the measures we had to take to be allowed to store electric bicycles with lithium-ion batteries. When stored and handled in larger quantities, these relatively small batteries already pose a considerable risk and require various safety precautions to manage them safely. The batteries are highly flammable, can leak if dropped or otherwise mechanically damaged, and so on.
For photovoltaic systems, however, much larger battery sizes are required. There should at least be fire safety requirements for the room where these are installed, as well as appropriate warning signs for the fire department indicating the presence of a hazard.
Since I work for a logistics company, I remember all the measures we had to take to be allowed to store electric bicycles with lithium-ion batteries. When stored and handled in larger quantities, these relatively small batteries already pose a considerable risk and require various safety precautions to manage them safely. The batteries are highly flammable, can leak if dropped or otherwise mechanically damaged, and so on.
For photovoltaic systems, however, much larger battery sizes are required. There should at least be fire safety requirements for the room where these are installed, as well as appropriate warning signs for the fire department indicating the presence of a hazard.
Häuslebau3r30 Jan 2015 11:14From what I have read so far, there are still no precise regulations. It is generally recommended to secure the rooms according to fire protection regulations. Often, battery cabinets are simply installed. However, the room should ideally be frost-free and also capable of being heated, etc.
Furthermore, it is possible that the house’s fire insurance premiums could increase. Up to now, this does not necessarily need to be reported to the insurer, right? But it would probably be better to do so.
@Nathi,
this already sounds very promising.
But as lllo77 said, at the moment it seems to be mainly a cost calculation decision 🙂
Furthermore, it is possible that the house’s fire insurance premiums could increase. Up to now, this does not necessarily need to be reported to the insurer, right? But it would probably be better to do so.
@Nathi,
this already sounds very promising.
But as lllo77 said, at the moment it seems to be mainly a cost calculation decision 🙂