ᐅ Gas Condensing Boiler or Air-to-Water Heat Pump for a Water-Heating Fireplace?
Created on: 23 Feb 2014 23:35
F
FrankDr
We are currently planning a new build of about 180m² (1,938 sq ft) to KfW70 standard and have been considering for some time which primary energy source to use. The plan definitely includes
- underfloor heating throughout
- controlled mechanical ventilation (current favorite: Buderus HRV)
- a water-based fireplace (Wodtke Giro, 8 kW with buffer storage)
Since we enjoy wood heat, it’s not a problem to cover cold peaks in winter, which can be expensive with a heat pump. However, a heat pump requires a higher initial investment by several thousand, and electricity tariffs for heat pumps are disappearing. At 27 cents per kWh, electricity is not cheap.
On the other hand, we would have to pay about €1800 (approximately $1950) just to install a gas connection (despite being in a new development area), plus a basic fee on the otherwise cheap gas, and an additional chimney flue running through the entire house would need to be planned and installed.
At the moment, we are undecided... My brother-in-law is a heating engineer and doesn’t want to influence us (though he would lean towards gas) and he works at Buderus, so we get very good discounts regardless of what we choose. That means the brand is basically set.
Is a Buderus heat pump (indoor or split system) a good choice together with the Buderus HRV mechanical ventilation? Or would gas be better?
- underfloor heating throughout
- controlled mechanical ventilation (current favorite: Buderus HRV)
- a water-based fireplace (Wodtke Giro, 8 kW with buffer storage)
Since we enjoy wood heat, it’s not a problem to cover cold peaks in winter, which can be expensive with a heat pump. However, a heat pump requires a higher initial investment by several thousand, and electricity tariffs for heat pumps are disappearing. At 27 cents per kWh, electricity is not cheap.
On the other hand, we would have to pay about €1800 (approximately $1950) just to install a gas connection (despite being in a new development area), plus a basic fee on the otherwise cheap gas, and an additional chimney flue running through the entire house would need to be planned and installed.
At the moment, we are undecided... My brother-in-law is a heating engineer and doesn’t want to influence us (though he would lean towards gas) and he works at Buderus, so we get very good discounts regardless of what we choose. That means the brand is basically set.
Is a Buderus heat pump (indoor or split system) a good choice together with the Buderus HRV mechanical ventilation? Or would gas be better?
This is how it looks; it has nothing to do with fetishism. I think heat pump technology is great, just not for heating a house... at least not at the prices charged for it... for pools, electrical appliances, etc., there is nothing better...
I also have two heat pump units in the house...
I also have two heat pump units in the house...
DerBjoern schrieb:
The cost advantage always depends on the location. Here, I can hardly get heat pump electricity any cheaper. The cheapest tariff is 21.5 cents plus a €5.95 base fee per month for the additional meter... This is basically correct, as always, the individual local conditions are decisive in every direction! Heat pump electricity can now be obtained nationwide for 19 cents/kWh, without differentiating between peak/off-peak and without additional metering costs! Fortunately, we are no longer dependent on local suppliers here, but can choose freely nationwide!!!
In some areas, gas condensing boilers are subsidized by the supplier (connection costs), while in others they are rather penalized (high connection fees)!
This alone explains why there is no ultimate heat generator (energy supplier) that works universally, but rather the specific and individual requirements/necessities of the construction project are decisive/determinative!
Therefore, there is no ultimate best solution!!!
DerBjoern schrieb:
....a gas connection didn’t cost me more than 1000€.... Subsidized connection costs are often compensated afterwards through binding supply contracts (notice period, contract duration)! Just get a nationwide comparison offer for this! Whether insurance, electricity, gas, etc., anyone who wants to save money cannot avoid annual differentiation if they want/can take advantage of market options! Usually, this is not convenient but rather complex and tedious.
Those who depend on this due to consumption costs, however, have no choice!
Energy efficiency is usually only absolutely necessary for “average consumers”; those who have abundant resources care little about it!
Best regards
D
DerBjoern4 Mar 2014 11:43I do not have a restrictive acceptance contract. I am free to choose my gas supplier. I am not tied to the local municipal utility.
No, I have not found a nationwide electricity provider offering 19 cents without an additional basic fee in my area through the usual comparison sites! The cheapest option would be 21.45 cents plus a 5.95€ basic fee per month.
Nationwide doesn’t always mean available everywhere...
Heat pump electricity can now be obtained nationwide for 19 cents/kWh, without distinguishing between peak and off-peak times and without requiring a special meter (costs)!
No, I have not found a nationwide electricity provider offering 19 cents without an additional basic fee in my area through the usual comparison sites! The cheapest option would be 21.45 cents plus a 5.95€ basic fee per month.
Nationwide doesn’t always mean available everywhere...
DerBjoern schrieb:
....Interregional does not always mean everywhere... Exactly right, which is why individual site analysis and evaluation is so valuable and necessary! That is also why there is no ultimate "philosopher’s stone"!, as often claimed by anonymous advisors without any professional training Best regards
D
DerBjoern4 Mar 2014 12:22I completely agree with you, €uro! However, the ultimate "silver bullet" is often proclaimed, especially by advisors with professional training (personal experience). Unfortunately, it is not an exclusive right of the uninformed...
The evaluation depends not only on the location and the property but also on the timing. A few years ago, I might have gone for a heat pump. Today, I would choose gas. In the future, the situation might change again.
Even experts would do well to regularly recalculate their established knowledge.
The evaluation depends not only on the location and the property but also on the timing. A few years ago, I might have gone for a heat pump. Today, I would choose gas. In the future, the situation might change again.
Even experts would do well to regularly recalculate their established knowledge.
DerBjoern schrieb:
....Even experts do well to periodically recalculate their specialized knowledge. True experts usually don’t need this, as they always stay up to date. Builders who earned their master certification 30 years ago and have not updated their knowledge since are likely to face significant challenges. A master craftsman’s apprentice, at least theoretically, has learned what static and dynamic pressure are—something a layperson with only superficial knowledge is unlikely to grasp. Whether the apprentice actually applies this knowledge in practice is another matter entirely, as “being cheap is cool” often dominates the overall approach!
Many problems are self-inflicted, caused by the clients, not necessarily due to the professionals!
A technically correct, complete design and dimensioning must always be a few hundred € more expensive than one without. A competent builder often loses contracts because competitors do not offer this service. So why should they? It is better to have a contract, even with imperfect planning, than none at all—especially since contracts usually do not require energy efficiency or low consumption costs! Therefore, no blame can be placed on this. A technically correct system installer has no chance in the market, as it is dominated by low-cost providers!
This is why in energy-saving regulation or KfW70 buildings sold by general contractors or project managers, you often find air-water heat pumps as heat generators, although they are usually completely unsuitable. With gas condensing boilers, overly optimistic calculations commonly lead to the installation of unnecessary circulation pumps, which are usually not cost-effective in single-family homes.
In the end, everyone gets what they truly deserve!
Regards
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