ᐅ Cost Planning
Created on: 29 Apr 2016 21:27
B
Becker84
Hello,
I will most likely buy a plot of land next week and am therefore just at the very beginning.
A financing inquiry is in progress, and an appointment with a structural engineer is already scheduled.
The plot is 630m² (6,780 sq ft) in size, with a site coverage ratio of 0.3.
I have the option to build to KfW 70, 55, or 40 standards (preferably 40+). KfW 70 is the minimum standard nowadays, so no funding is available for that level.
Ideally, I would like to be completely independent of electricity and gas, so a 40+ standard with photovoltaic panels plus battery storage and a heat pump.
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One thought I had: Is it possible to do without a heat pump and instead invest more in photovoltaic panels, so that heating is done purely electrically?
I noted down the data from the photovoltaic system at my workplace:
Maximum inverter output: 14.6kW (May).
Energy yield during the summer months is 1700–1900 kWh/month.
In the heating-intensive winter months, 160–300 kWh/month.
Now I wonder if a 55 or 40 standard house can get by with 80–150 kWh per month for heating energy?
Electrical energy from photovoltaics can be converted to heat almost without losses, and thanks to phase shifting in a passive house, it can be used without storage. The waste heat from the TV or refrigerator also contributes.
At my first meeting with a structural engineer, I mentioned this idea, and the answer was, “No one has thought of that yet... it would need to be calculated.” Apparently, there are other factors that negatively affect the calculations for fully electric heating.
-----------------
Next question: roughly how much does each house type cost at KfW 70/55/40?
1. Bungalow (Is it even possible to use the roof at KfW 40 standard?)
2. Two-story house with a gable roof – the ideal standard ;-)
3. Two-story house with a hipped roof – my favorite
Floor area about 120–130m² (1,290–1,400 sq ft).
At the first visit, I was told that with reasonable finishes (bathroom, tiles, etc.), the bungalow would be roughly €180,000. Number 3 would be around €350,000 at KfW 70.
I don’t want to do any work myself. Everything should be done perfectly.
Is this realistic?
Ideally, next to the house there should be a large double garage (€25,000?).
Is there a website where completed homeowners present their houses including all costs? That would really help me a lot.
Best regards,
Becker84
I will most likely buy a plot of land next week and am therefore just at the very beginning.
A financing inquiry is in progress, and an appointment with a structural engineer is already scheduled.
The plot is 630m² (6,780 sq ft) in size, with a site coverage ratio of 0.3.
I have the option to build to KfW 70, 55, or 40 standards (preferably 40+). KfW 70 is the minimum standard nowadays, so no funding is available for that level.
Ideally, I would like to be completely independent of electricity and gas, so a 40+ standard with photovoltaic panels plus battery storage and a heat pump.
-----------------
One thought I had: Is it possible to do without a heat pump and instead invest more in photovoltaic panels, so that heating is done purely electrically?
I noted down the data from the photovoltaic system at my workplace:
Maximum inverter output: 14.6kW (May).
Energy yield during the summer months is 1700–1900 kWh/month.
In the heating-intensive winter months, 160–300 kWh/month.
Now I wonder if a 55 or 40 standard house can get by with 80–150 kWh per month for heating energy?
Electrical energy from photovoltaics can be converted to heat almost without losses, and thanks to phase shifting in a passive house, it can be used without storage. The waste heat from the TV or refrigerator also contributes.
At my first meeting with a structural engineer, I mentioned this idea, and the answer was, “No one has thought of that yet... it would need to be calculated.” Apparently, there are other factors that negatively affect the calculations for fully electric heating.
-----------------
Next question: roughly how much does each house type cost at KfW 70/55/40?
1. Bungalow (Is it even possible to use the roof at KfW 40 standard?)
2. Two-story house with a gable roof – the ideal standard ;-)
3. Two-story house with a hipped roof – my favorite
Floor area about 120–130m² (1,290–1,400 sq ft).
At the first visit, I was told that with reasonable finishes (bathroom, tiles, etc.), the bungalow would be roughly €180,000. Number 3 would be around €350,000 at KfW 70.
I don’t want to do any work myself. Everything should be done perfectly.
Is this realistic?
Ideally, next to the house there should be a large double garage (€25,000?).
Is there a website where completed homeowners present their houses including all costs? That would really help me a lot.
Best regards,
Becker84
Sascha aus H11 May 2016 16:38Becker84 schrieb:
Additional costs of €40,000 => does that include paving work and landscaping? No, those are additional.
Becker84 schrieb:
Additional costs of €40,000 => does that include paving work and landscaping?
Has anyone ever calculated if and when the extra costs for a KfW55 or KfW40 house will pay off? I’m thinking with about 80% loan-to-value and roughly 20 years financing.I’d like to refer you again to post #2 so you know what additional construction costs typically include. Bauexperte also pointed out the search function.
Becker84 schrieb:
Has anyone ever calculated if and when the additional costs for a KfW55 or KfW40 house pay off? Let’s say with about 80% financing and a 20-year loan.Yes.
My bank.
Me too.
Back then, moving from KfW70 (which is equivalent to today’s Energy Saving Regulation 100) to KfW55: savings were about 10 euros per month.
Capital investment: around 15,000 euros.
Payback period: No foreseeable, reasonable timeframe.
Very, very rough rule of thumb:
Each step up costs about 10,000 to 15,000 euros more. Just as a guideline.
OK: Our house was designed and built so that it was already very close to KfW55. But crossing that threshold would have only been possible with the investment mentioned above. Meaning that the 10 euros mentioned above reduce to... maybe 2 or 3 euros per month?
You don’t raise the standard mainly to save money. Even KfW70 / Energy Saving Regulation 100 hardly costs anything more when it comes to heating and domestic hot water—it's negligible compared to the noise.
You do it at a higher standard because you *want* to AND *can* (financially). Wanted: yes. Could afford it: no.
Regards,
Thorsten
PS: This winter was not very cold, but it was long. I heat with gas (including domestic hot water, plus thermal solar covering about 50% of the annual demand), with a small addition of wood (negligible). Calculated gas costs amounted to 55 euros per month. The utility company has now tried to reduce that to 40 euros per month based on recently read consumption. Let’s say 55 euros per month is the baseline, the zero point. Here you can see what you could still save—50 to 70 euros. For that, you’d need a KfW40+ house with a large solar system, certainly an additional thermal solar system, insulation to the nth degree, and so on. Or a poorly functioning passive house or solar house. Daydreaming in my opinion. That costs at least 50,000 euros more than Energy Saving Regulation 100. For those savings, you don’t get the financing you need for the next step from 100 to 55...
Yesterday, I visited the structural engineer I will probably work with for our build. According to him, the cost would be around €1300-1400 per square meter (approximately $140-150 per square foot) or about €300 per cubic meter (approximately $5 per cubic foot) using standard construction methods, complying with the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance and gas heating.
Question 1: How much extra does a geothermal heat pump with two deep boreholes more cost? Does the heat pump itself cost roughly the same as a gas boiler, and I only pay the additional drilling(s) as an extra cost?
He estimated about an additional €15,000 for KfW55 standard. I would receive a €5,000 grant from the KfW bank and benefit from a lower-interest loan, which I calculate to be around another €5,800 saved. So the effective additional cost would be only about €4,200 plus the costs from question 1.
Going for KfW40+ would add roughly another €30,000, with only a €10,000 grant from the KfW bank, resulting in about €20,000 extra. I would rather build a double garage with that budget.
Or are €15,000 for a photovoltaic system with battery storage overestimated?
Maybe it makes sense to choose KfW55 with photovoltaic system plus storage instead. Then I would have zero gas usage and hopefully zero electricity costs.
Question 1: How much extra does a geothermal heat pump with two deep boreholes more cost? Does the heat pump itself cost roughly the same as a gas boiler, and I only pay the additional drilling(s) as an extra cost?
He estimated about an additional €15,000 for KfW55 standard. I would receive a €5,000 grant from the KfW bank and benefit from a lower-interest loan, which I calculate to be around another €5,800 saved. So the effective additional cost would be only about €4,200 plus the costs from question 1.
Going for KfW40+ would add roughly another €30,000, with only a €10,000 grant from the KfW bank, resulting in about €20,000 extra. I would rather build a double garage with that budget.
Or are €15,000 for a photovoltaic system with battery storage overestimated?
Maybe it makes sense to choose KfW55 with photovoltaic system plus storage instead. Then I would have zero gas usage and hopefully zero electricity costs.
Becker84 schrieb:
Question 1: What does it cost me to have a geothermal heat pump with 2 deep boreholes more?
Does the heat pump cost about the same as a gas boiler, and I only pay extra for the drilling(s)?It’s hard to say because the costs vary greatly depending on the region, soil conditions, and, of course, how deep you need to drill. You should also first check whether it is even possible or permitted in your area.
Where I am, drilling costs about 70 euros per meter, but you need at least 180 meters (590 feet) drilled. So it’s relatively expensive, which is why I tend to prefer a trench collector instead.
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