Hello everyone,
For two years, there hasn’t been anything suitable or interesting to buy.
Now there are two properties available in 89231 Neu-Ulm. Help!
If both were a good fit for you, which would you generally choose: buying an old house or building new?
Quick facts:
Old house: built in 1967, bathroom renovated 10 years ago, balcony, terrace, semi-detached house, 5.5 rooms, 139 m² (1494 sq ft) plus an unfinished attic (nothing done here), total land area including garden 465 m² (5005 sq ft), garage with electric door, very quiet location in a suburban area, available immediately, oil heating (system, guest toilet so far without sink, expansion vessel etc. renovated a few years ago, so relatively new), central heating, energy efficiency class G-H. All wallpapers and carpets would need to be removed, new flooring and walls painted or papered. Half-spiral staircases throughout, no railings to the basement and attic.
Purchase by bidding process – highest offer wins (inheritance community wants the money). Minimum bid: 300,000 €.
We estimated the costs for flooring, painting, renovation of the WC, removing a wall in the living room, installing a new kitchen, and come to a total of around 370,000 €.
New house:
New build within a building community of 7 units, terraced house with solid carport, total area 214 m² (2303 sq ft), 115 m² (1237 sq ft) with 4 rooms (3 rooms on the upper floor, 1 office with atrium in the basement which could be counted as around 12 m² (129 sq ft) added to the 115), underfloor heating, guest toilet, terrace, flat roof (cube design), open staircase, KfW 55 energy standard.
Costs for everything, move-in ready spring 2017: 400,000 €.
Can anyone tell me what I should consider for each property?
Financially, 400,000 € is our absolute maximum.
For two years, there hasn’t been anything suitable or interesting to buy.
Now there are two properties available in 89231 Neu-Ulm. Help!
If both were a good fit for you, which would you generally choose: buying an old house or building new?
Quick facts:
Old house: built in 1967, bathroom renovated 10 years ago, balcony, terrace, semi-detached house, 5.5 rooms, 139 m² (1494 sq ft) plus an unfinished attic (nothing done here), total land area including garden 465 m² (5005 sq ft), garage with electric door, very quiet location in a suburban area, available immediately, oil heating (system, guest toilet so far without sink, expansion vessel etc. renovated a few years ago, so relatively new), central heating, energy efficiency class G-H. All wallpapers and carpets would need to be removed, new flooring and walls painted or papered. Half-spiral staircases throughout, no railings to the basement and attic.
Purchase by bidding process – highest offer wins (inheritance community wants the money). Minimum bid: 300,000 €.
We estimated the costs for flooring, painting, renovation of the WC, removing a wall in the living room, installing a new kitchen, and come to a total of around 370,000 €.
New house:
New build within a building community of 7 units, terraced house with solid carport, total area 214 m² (2303 sq ft), 115 m² (1237 sq ft) with 4 rooms (3 rooms on the upper floor, 1 office with atrium in the basement which could be counted as around 12 m² (129 sq ft) added to the 115), underfloor heating, guest toilet, terrace, flat roof (cube design), open staircase, KfW 55 energy standard.
Costs for everything, move-in ready spring 2017: 400,000 €.
Can anyone tell me what I should consider for each property?
Financially, 400,000 € is our absolute maximum.
When I look at my "old" development area, I cannot confirm that. Individual buildings are regularly demolished, renovated, or remodeled, and within a radius of 300m (approximately 980 feet), larger plots have been redeveloped with multiple apartment buildings. Naturally, this also changes the residents and their age structure.
Regarding "neighborhood" and similar aspects, I have been reflecting a bit—purely from a technical standpoint, as a layperson in construction, I tend to believe that it’s usually more cost-effective to get something new and energy-efficient that meets my wishes and requirements than an older property that then requires expensive renovations—both in terms of heating technology as well as bathroom modernization, accessibility, etc. Subsidies don’t help much if I still have to invest heavily (I am open to being convinced otherwise).
If, as in this case, there is only about a $30,000 price difference (less than 10%), the older house really has to fit my needs very well.
For personal reasons, older houses usually don’t meet the requirements we have for our home (such as accessibility, including no entrance steps), which makes the decision to choose an older property even less likely.
Additionally, older houses generally require more frequent or ongoing renovations compared to new ones, and this also needs to be taken into account...
If, as in this case, there is only about a $30,000 price difference (less than 10%), the older house really has to fit my needs very well.
For personal reasons, older houses usually don’t meet the requirements we have for our home (such as accessibility, including no entrance steps), which makes the decision to choose an older property even less likely.
Additionally, older houses generally require more frequent or ongoing renovations compared to new ones, and this also needs to be taken into account...
Thank you for your opinions!
Yes, the social environment is also an important factor for me. Around the old house, there seem to be "tolerant" people living nearby, but this part of the neighborhood mostly consists of "older generations." In the new development area, approximately 60 housing units will be built. Half of the building plots were allocated directly by the city, with the requirement that at least one toddler or child is already in the family. We had no chance there since our first child is planned but neither born nor on the way yet. The other half of the plots went to four developers and one building cooperative. It can be assumed that most families here will be roughly our age, with or without children or still expecting them. A new kindergarten and a school will be built nearby next year.
Barrier-free or low-barrier access is also important for us as my mother will be moving in. The old house has a half-spiral staircase and four steps at the entrance, plus two more steps (without handrails) at the terrace. In the new building, the ground floor is level, the upper floor is accessible via a straight stairwell, and if needed, the living/kitchen/dining area on the ground floor could later be reduced by adding a wall behind the carport, creating an additional room on the ground floor. The bathroom is upstairs, but with this stair design, installing a lift in the future would not be a problem.
After speaking with a former colleague who lives almost opposite the old house, we decided to skip the building inspector and are now focusing solely on the opportunity in the new development. She owns a similarly aged house and was able to share information about the previous owners and so on. The renovation and refurbishment costs for the old house have no clear upper limit, which makes it too risky for us, among other reasons.
The building cooperative for the new development has to choose us as their "neighbor next door" or reject us by early September... I’m nervous.
Yes, the social environment is also an important factor for me. Around the old house, there seem to be "tolerant" people living nearby, but this part of the neighborhood mostly consists of "older generations." In the new development area, approximately 60 housing units will be built. Half of the building plots were allocated directly by the city, with the requirement that at least one toddler or child is already in the family. We had no chance there since our first child is planned but neither born nor on the way yet. The other half of the plots went to four developers and one building cooperative. It can be assumed that most families here will be roughly our age, with or without children or still expecting them. A new kindergarten and a school will be built nearby next year.
Barrier-free or low-barrier access is also important for us as my mother will be moving in. The old house has a half-spiral staircase and four steps at the entrance, plus two more steps (without handrails) at the terrace. In the new building, the ground floor is level, the upper floor is accessible via a straight stairwell, and if needed, the living/kitchen/dining area on the ground floor could later be reduced by adding a wall behind the carport, creating an additional room on the ground floor. The bathroom is upstairs, but with this stair design, installing a lift in the future would not be a problem.
After speaking with a former colleague who lives almost opposite the old house, we decided to skip the building inspector and are now focusing solely on the opportunity in the new development. She owns a similarly aged house and was able to share information about the previous owners and so on. The renovation and refurbishment costs for the old house have no clear upper limit, which makes it too risky for us, among other reasons.
The building cooperative for the new development has to choose us as their "neighbor next door" or reject us by early September... I’m nervous.
B
Bauexperte26 Aug 2015 09:54Hello,
I wouldn’t rely solely on a neighbor’s statements; houses are rarely comparable, and after all, she is not an expert. On the other hand, Dirk’s comment hits the nail on the head: you really need to have a romantic mindset toward an old building, just as Hoeneß is said to have an almost erotic relationship with money. Even after extensive renovation, an old building remains an old building in terms of its structure. It is not uncommon for renovation costs to be comparable to those of a new build.
Then I wish you the best of luck!
Regards, Bauexperte
Stephina schrieb:
She has a house of almost the same age and was also able to share information about the previous owners, etc. The costs for renovation and restoration have no clear upper limit here, which would be too risky a game for us, among other things.
I wouldn’t rely solely on a neighbor’s statements; houses are rarely comparable, and after all, she is not an expert. On the other hand, Dirk’s comment hits the nail on the head: you really need to have a romantic mindset toward an old building, just as Hoeneß is said to have an almost erotic relationship with money. Even after extensive renovation, an old building remains an old building in terms of its structure. It is not uncommon for renovation costs to be comparable to those of a new build.
Stephina schrieb:
The building community for the new construction has to choose us as the “neighbor next door” or reject us by early September… I’m nervous.
Then I wish you the best of luck!
Regards, Bauexperte
Hello Stephina,
I wouldn’t rule out the option of an older building myself. The building expert is absolutely right—unless the neighbor is an expert or otherwise well-informed, her opinion isn’t very helpful. We/I have looked at all kinds of buildings (including new constructions still under shell stage) with an architect, even though I already have relevant prior knowledge (property valuation). If you’re excluded from the new build option, you’ll be back at square one and possibly end up considering an older building again.
Of course, if you decide to categorically exclude an older building, that’s perfectly fine—but if that’s not the case, or if an older building becomes relevant again after some time, it really helps to have seen a few properties yourself. We seriously checked, if I recall correctly, six properties without proceeding to buy. We definitely visited about twice as many.
The earlier visits were more “learning by doing,” as you get a feel for what’s on offer, what you want, and what is financially feasible.
It’s also important to seriously check and compare the living space between older and new buildings. If I were to plan my older building as a new build based on current prices, much of the technology and condition would naturally be up to the latest standards, but the costs would significantly exceed the purchase price including renovation/refurbishment.
Best regards,
Dirk Grafe
I wouldn’t rule out the option of an older building myself. The building expert is absolutely right—unless the neighbor is an expert or otherwise well-informed, her opinion isn’t very helpful. We/I have looked at all kinds of buildings (including new constructions still under shell stage) with an architect, even though I already have relevant prior knowledge (property valuation). If you’re excluded from the new build option, you’ll be back at square one and possibly end up considering an older building again.
Of course, if you decide to categorically exclude an older building, that’s perfectly fine—but if that’s not the case, or if an older building becomes relevant again after some time, it really helps to have seen a few properties yourself. We seriously checked, if I recall correctly, six properties without proceeding to buy. We definitely visited about twice as many.
The earlier visits were more “learning by doing,” as you get a feel for what’s on offer, what you want, and what is financially feasible.
It’s also important to seriously check and compare the living space between older and new buildings. If I were to plan my older building as a new build based on current prices, much of the technology and condition would naturally be up to the latest standards, but the costs would significantly exceed the purchase price including renovation/refurbishment.
Best regards,
Dirk Grafe
So, we didn’t decide against it solely because of the statements from the "neighbor." The bidding process, location, follow-up costs, and other factors also influenced our decision. Here, the deadline is August 31 and the decision regarding the new build will only be made on September 9. Aside from that, of course, we are looking at all houses in the area and have already visited various builders for information about new constructions. You learn something new with every meeting, which is really important for us as laypeople. Whether new construction or resale doesn’t matter initially. The layout, the location, and especially the price have to be right.
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