Hello,
we want to replace the windows in a timber frame house—12 windows plus 1 balcony door. The current windows are 25 years old. Apparently, there were significant installation errors: the windows are not properly sealed or secured. As a result, it is quite noisy inside. Because of the close proximity to a street, you can hear every passing vehicle.
While searching online, you naturally find many affordable window suppliers. But without installation, that wouldn’t help. One online supplier offers installation services through local companies. We also obtained a separate quote from one of these highly rated local window companies, independently of the online supplier. The on-site consultation from three companies (1 window installer, 1 carpenter, 1 installation service) was by far the best and most professional from the local window company.
The windows currently have double glazing. We would probably stick with that. We already heat very little despite noticeable drafts around the windows and sills in winter, so I don’t see any advantage in triple glazing here.
The German window supplier offers Veka SL76 MD profile, white on white, insulated glazing with a U-value of 1.1 W/m²K (U-value 0.19 Btu/h·ft²·°F), with muntins, window dimensions about 130 x 95 cm (51 x 37 inches), and a standard balcony door. The price is about 12,200 euros. With soundproof glass, it is about 12,800 euros.
Alternatively, instead of the German supplier, the same local company offers Oknoplast windows with the same Veka profiles for about 1,000 euros less. According to Oknoplast, soundproof glass is not possible with muntins, whereas the German supplier can provide this without issues.
What do you think of this offer? Since we lack experience, are these prices usually fixed, or is there room for negotiation? Honestly, we had expected somewhat lower prices since there is no “extra” installed—just standard windows.
Best regards
we want to replace the windows in a timber frame house—12 windows plus 1 balcony door. The current windows are 25 years old. Apparently, there were significant installation errors: the windows are not properly sealed or secured. As a result, it is quite noisy inside. Because of the close proximity to a street, you can hear every passing vehicle.
While searching online, you naturally find many affordable window suppliers. But without installation, that wouldn’t help. One online supplier offers installation services through local companies. We also obtained a separate quote from one of these highly rated local window companies, independently of the online supplier. The on-site consultation from three companies (1 window installer, 1 carpenter, 1 installation service) was by far the best and most professional from the local window company.
The windows currently have double glazing. We would probably stick with that. We already heat very little despite noticeable drafts around the windows and sills in winter, so I don’t see any advantage in triple glazing here.
The German window supplier offers Veka SL76 MD profile, white on white, insulated glazing with a U-value of 1.1 W/m²K (U-value 0.19 Btu/h·ft²·°F), with muntins, window dimensions about 130 x 95 cm (51 x 37 inches), and a standard balcony door. The price is about 12,200 euros. With soundproof glass, it is about 12,800 euros.
Alternatively, instead of the German supplier, the same local company offers Oknoplast windows with the same Veka profiles for about 1,000 euros less. According to Oknoplast, soundproof glass is not possible with muntins, whereas the German supplier can provide this without issues.
What do you think of this offer? Since we lack experience, are these prices usually fixed, or is there room for negotiation? Honestly, we had expected somewhat lower prices since there is no “extra” installed—just standard windows.
Best regards
R
rennschnecke26 Sep 2025 21:38nordanney schrieb:
You didn’t have to ventilate in that house either. Mold problems after window replacement affect many homeowners every day, and even more tenants and landlords (and consequently experts and courts). Believe me. Keep these issues in mind. We will. This is not our only or first house. Ventilation is not a foreign concept to us.
nordanney schrieb:
LOL. That is not insignificant. That’s about €2,000 (around $2,150) in heating costs somewhere. Physics—as I wrote. You can’t heat cheaply like that.
If I convert my house (which is a bit smaller) to 190 sqm (2,045 sq ft), then I heat for €500-550 (about $540-$590) including hot water (22°C (72°F) room temperature). That’s what I mean subjectively. Well, if you heat a 25-year-old house with 190 sqm (2,045 sq ft) for €550 per year (about $590) including hot water using gas, that is surprising and probably unique. The average gas consumption for a 190 sqm (2,045 sq ft) house with hot water from 2000 is higher than our usage.
But even that misses the main point.
rennschnecke schrieb:
We want to replace the windows in a timber frame house. 12 windows + 1 balcony door.
The windows are 25 years old. It seems that significant installation errors were made; the windows are not properly sealed or fixed.
As a result, it’s quite noisy.
Due to the close proximity to a street, you can hear every passing vehicle. [...]
According to Oknoplast, soundproof glass is not possible with muntins, but the German supplier said this would not be a problem.
[ / ] a 25-year-old house So the windows and the house are the same age, probably installed during the house’s construction in the prefab factory. If they are still poorly installed, this suggests a low-cost builder (of the house). Wood moves, even in prefabricated wall panels. Identify the exact cause. Take advantage of the options to adjust the windows and replace their seals if needed. The windows (what material are yours made of?) do not necessarily have to be replaced automatically after 25 years. Also, installed windows can be film-coated if they no longer look tidy. Whether muntins create a thermal bridge depends on their installation position, not the brand (or the manufacturer’s country).
Forget about an online retailer offering “German fitters” – that’s often just someone unprofessional from a trades market. I would prefer a Polish window manufacturer over a German all-service tradesman. As a retired aluminum window manufacturer, I can tell you that even the best products end up with top-level complaints if they’re botched into the wall openings by careless amateurs. The number of unscrupulous people working in this field is unbelievable. So, you have a high chance of throwing a lot of money literally “out the window” on misguided improvements. In my view, the question “where can I just buy some new windows” is the worst possible approach.
Sorry to all the older questioners that I answer a young question first here; at the moment I have to manage my time very strictly.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
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T
Teimo198828 Sep 2025 09:30If these are reputable companies, I wouldn’t hesitate long at that price. It’s really affordable. You can watch the installation to see if it’s done properly. If you do some research beforehand, you can tell whether things are headed in the right direction. You’re only 100% sure if you do it yourself and know what you’re doing… but that’s always the case with everything.
N
nordanney28 Sep 2025 09:48rennschnecke schrieb:
So if you heat a 190 m² (2,045 sq ft) house that is 25 years old for 550 euros per year including hot water using gas, that’s remarkable and probably unique. No. Built in 1965. But renovated. So not unique, but affordable. Low consumption and low cost are not common where you are. That’s what I meant. It might be good for you, but not in absolute terms.
R
rennschnecke28 Sep 2025 18:4211ant schrieb:
If they are still installed poorly, that points to a low-cost manufacturer (of the house). The windows were installed during the house construction by a local master carpenter, whose company still exists today (in its second generation). However, the installation must have been faulty because the windows are not properly sealed. There are also local craftsmen who do shoddy work.
The only option would be to remove the windows, reseal them properly, and reinstall them correctly. But at that point, it would be just as well to replace the windows altogether.
11ant schrieb:
Whether muntins cause a thermal bridge depends on their installation position, not the brand (or the manufacturer’s nationality). What surprises me is that Oknoplast says soundproof glass with internal muntins is not possible, while TMP claims it’s no problem.
11ant schrieb:
Forget about an online retailer with "German installers"—that often means some random tradesmen hired off the street. I only looked at online retailers to see what options are available.
Teimo1988 schrieb:
If they are reputable companies, I wouldn’t hesitate at that price. As I said, both companies are from the region and consistently have good reviews as window manufacturers. These are not backyard installers.
So I interpret the price as "fair."
N
nordanney28 Sep 2025 19:52rennschnecke schrieb:
I am just surprised that Oknoplast says soundproof glass with internal muntins is not possible, whereas TMP says it is no problem. This could be due to a language barrier or the exact wording of the inquiry. EVERY glass manufacturer installs internal muntins because they are basically irrelevant for sound insulation. It is not possible to find these panes unavailable from all possible glass manufacturers in Europe.
Dividing mullions are a completely different matter.
Or they simply don’t want the order.
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