ᐅ Electric window opening as an alternative to a ventilation system?
Created on: 28 Jul 2014 11:17
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christianmarx
Hello dear forum community,
this is our first post in this forum.
We will be building soon (townhouse, 140 sqm (1507 sq ft), hipped roof, masonry construction, quiet residential area). We are currently having difficulties deciding on the ventilation system.
We have basically ruled out a central ventilation system because no one can tell us what the condition of the ducts will be like inside after 30 years. Apart from the ongoing maintenance costs for such a system, this feels too uncertain to us. There is a lack of long-term experience here.
We like the decentralized option better, as the entire unit can be removed for thorough cleaning. The downside is the many wall openings (probably 6 for 2 floors, 3 per floor).
Our window supplier therefore suggested windows with parallel opening ventilation. These are burglar-resistant despite being open (resistance class RC2) and can also be equipped with an electric drive, allowing them to open automatically according to settings (random mode, every 10 minutes, every 30 minutes, etc.). This window ventilation meets the requirements for user-independent ventilation according to DIN 1946-6 and has been tested by the Fraunhofer Institute. Of course, we are aware that this option results in energy loss (no heat recovery).
What do you think? Has anyone installed this before and can share their experience?
We look forward to your opinions!
Best regards,
christianmarx
this is our first post in this forum.
We will be building soon (townhouse, 140 sqm (1507 sq ft), hipped roof, masonry construction, quiet residential area). We are currently having difficulties deciding on the ventilation system.
We have basically ruled out a central ventilation system because no one can tell us what the condition of the ducts will be like inside after 30 years. Apart from the ongoing maintenance costs for such a system, this feels too uncertain to us. There is a lack of long-term experience here.
We like the decentralized option better, as the entire unit can be removed for thorough cleaning. The downside is the many wall openings (probably 6 for 2 floors, 3 per floor).
Our window supplier therefore suggested windows with parallel opening ventilation. These are burglar-resistant despite being open (resistance class RC2) and can also be equipped with an electric drive, allowing them to open automatically according to settings (random mode, every 10 minutes, every 30 minutes, etc.). This window ventilation meets the requirements for user-independent ventilation according to DIN 1946-6 and has been tested by the Fraunhofer Institute. Of course, we are aware that this option results in energy loss (no heat recovery).
What do you think? Has anyone installed this before and can share their experience?
We look forward to your opinions!
Best regards,
christianmarx
C
christianmarx29 Jul 2014 12:03Not completely convinced, otherwise I wouldn’t have posted here. Of course, I have concerns about the system, no question. But less about the inflow of cold air and more about whether the amount of air exchange is sufficient, as well as the durability of the electric drive for the windows.
I would also like to know if such ventilation systems can prevent moisture from coming in when it is humid outside?
I would also like to know if such ventilation systems can prevent moisture from coming in when it is humid outside?
Doc.Schnaggls schrieb:
Do you have these anti-buzz blinds on all your windows?
We have installed insect screen blinds in all the bedrooms, as well as in the bathroom, shower room, and kitchen.
In the living room, we had an insect screen door fitted on the patio door. The other windows in the living room and other rooms do not have them (unless I missed a window). Now that I think about it while reading, we should have installed one more in the living room. At night, we can’t just open the patio door easily because of the risk of break-ins. So, we didn’t think that through enough.
christianmarx schrieb:
Now a different question. When it’s humid outside, wouldn’t the ventilation system also pull in the moist air? Then it would be exhausted somewhere else. A cycle. Good question – I think in that case we would reduce the system’s operation for a limited time (like half a day or so) until the high humidity outside has decreased.
christianmarx schrieb:
If you turn off the system at night and ventilate through open windows, then you could ventilate all day through windows as well. Well – two points on that: First, we aren’t at home during the day, so regular window ventilation isn’t really possible (putting aside your suggested system, since I haven’t looked into that). Second, it’s much warmer outside during summer than inside. So, as it is now (without the ventilation system running inside the apartment), we keep the windows closed during the day and try to keep the heat out as much as possible. At night, we open the windows to let in the cooler air.
Most likely, during very hot weather, we will run the fans at 25% during the day (when no one is home) and in the evening, if we don’t open the windows, switch to boost ventilation for a short time. Then we’ll continue running the system at 50%. This should ensure a reasonable air exchange. That’s how I imagine it for now. We’ll see how well this works in practice.
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Doc.Schnaggls29 Jul 2014 12:12christianmarx schrieb:
I am also interested to know whether such ventilation systems can prevent moisture ingress when the outdoor air is humid?No, unfortunately that does not work. As far as I know, you still need an air conditioning system or you have to shut down the ventilation system manually or via an outdoor humidity sensor when humidity levels are high.
I believe that, with this system, you will eventually spend significantly more on heating energy than you save on installation costs now...
christianmarx schrieb:
...but whether the amount of air exchange is sufficient...If, as described in the video, the heat is supposed to stay within the building envelope with this system and the window frame does not have built-in heat recovery, then certainly not.
f-pNo schrieb:
We are also excited and looking forward to our decentralized system. Still, we will probably open the windows at night occasionally during summer and turn off the ventilation unit.As far as I know, this should never be done. If you have a ventilation system, it needs to run continuously, 24/7, all year round. Significant buildup occurs in the exhaust shaft—much more than just grease residues. These shafts are prime breeding grounds for bacteria and mold. See here and the next few minutes:
[MEDIA=YouTube]AWD0HeZLufM[/MEDIA]
This is not inherently dangerous, since it’s the exhaust shaft. Wastewater pipes don’t look great either. The constant airflow ensures that all this contamination definitely does not enter the house. If you switch the system off, these microorganisms can find their natural way back inside.
[MEDIA=YouTube]AWD0HeZLufM[/MEDIA]
This is why problems arise in winter, when indoor humidity sometimes drops to 10-20%. Turning off the system is simply not an option.
Edit: Unfortunately, I couldn’t post the exact timestamps properly. So: 39:15 and 36:45
@Grym
Interesting.
However, you probably overlooked that WE have a decentralized ventilation system with heat recovery. The fan pulls in outside air for 75 seconds, then reverses and expels indoor air for 75 seconds. The air passes through a "thermal storage stone." The units are flush with the wall thickness – there are no ventilation ducts with this decentralized system.
Some people may see it as an unattractive drawback that several fans are installed throughout the house – this could be a potential (visual) disadvantage.
Interesting.
However, you probably overlooked that WE have a decentralized ventilation system with heat recovery. The fan pulls in outside air for 75 seconds, then reverses and expels indoor air for 75 seconds. The air passes through a "thermal storage stone." The units are flush with the wall thickness – there are no ventilation ducts with this decentralized system.
Some people may see it as an unattractive drawback that several fans are installed throughout the house – this could be a potential (visual) disadvantage.
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