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BlackSwan7 Aug 2023 21:40Hello everyone,
there is no doubt about the architect’s reliability – just to clarify that upfront.
Regarding the project: Two identical multi-family residential buildings with 7 to 9 housing units each are to be constructed. Total living area per building is approximately 450 sqm (4,844 sq ft). One of these is planned immediately.
The following gross flat fees including ancillary services are offered:
Service phase 1-4: 24,990 EUR
Service phase 5: 21,420 EUR
Service phase 6-7: 7,735 EUR
Service phase 8: 47,600 EUR
Services for thermal and sound insulation, building energy regulation compliance, etc., are not included.
For the second building, a 50% discount is offered on service phases 1-7 and a 5% discount on service phase 8.
From my perspective, the offer for the first building is generally attractive, but I would like a second opinion. When I use the HOAI calculator, I end up right at the amount I calculated as the minimum fee, and my goal was actually to come in below that.
Regarding the discounts, I see it somewhat differently. Since the second building is to be constructed identically, only a new building permit/planning permission needs to be submitted. Therefore, I consider the discounts for phases 1-5 to be too low. Phases 6-8, on the other hand, seem reasonable, as these might need to be newly tendered due to the time difference. Do you see this differently?
Another point: The contract does not specify how often and to what extent on-site documentation will take place. From my perspective as the client, that would definitely make sense, but do you see it differently?
The architect will know a lot about what to focus on in service phase 8 but not everything – to what extent does it make sense to limit this phase if there is a craft business in the family? Could certain trades be excluded here? And what about liability in that case?
To what extent is the architect liable for defects if they perform service phases 5 and 8? Basically, the executing contractor is responsible for warranty, correct?
Also: It is not finalized yet, but it is still possible that a large part will be handled through a general contractor (GC).
I know that their site managers sometimes tend to overlook defects, but how risky is it if you rely on a reputable GC?
What other points in the contract would you pay attention to?
What negotiation options do you see?
Thanks and best regards
BS
there is no doubt about the architect’s reliability – just to clarify that upfront.
Regarding the project: Two identical multi-family residential buildings with 7 to 9 housing units each are to be constructed. Total living area per building is approximately 450 sqm (4,844 sq ft). One of these is planned immediately.
The following gross flat fees including ancillary services are offered:
Service phase 1-4: 24,990 EUR
Service phase 5: 21,420 EUR
Service phase 6-7: 7,735 EUR
Service phase 8: 47,600 EUR
Services for thermal and sound insulation, building energy regulation compliance, etc., are not included.
For the second building, a 50% discount is offered on service phases 1-7 and a 5% discount on service phase 8.
From my perspective, the offer for the first building is generally attractive, but I would like a second opinion. When I use the HOAI calculator, I end up right at the amount I calculated as the minimum fee, and my goal was actually to come in below that.
Regarding the discounts, I see it somewhat differently. Since the second building is to be constructed identically, only a new building permit/planning permission needs to be submitted. Therefore, I consider the discounts for phases 1-5 to be too low. Phases 6-8, on the other hand, seem reasonable, as these might need to be newly tendered due to the time difference. Do you see this differently?
Another point: The contract does not specify how often and to what extent on-site documentation will take place. From my perspective as the client, that would definitely make sense, but do you see it differently?
The architect will know a lot about what to focus on in service phase 8 but not everything – to what extent does it make sense to limit this phase if there is a craft business in the family? Could certain trades be excluded here? And what about liability in that case?
To what extent is the architect liable for defects if they perform service phases 5 and 8? Basically, the executing contractor is responsible for warranty, correct?
Also: It is not finalized yet, but it is still possible that a large part will be handled through a general contractor (GC).
I know that their site managers sometimes tend to overlook defects, but how risky is it if you rely on a reputable GC?
What other points in the contract would you pay attention to?
What negotiation options do you see?
Thanks and best regards
BS
A
Allthewayup7 Aug 2023 22:41If building with a general contractor (GC), I would actually skip hiring an architect and instead work with a construction supervisor or independent expert throughout the process. But only if it is a GC project. For individual trades, the situation is somewhat different. However, based on two construction projects within my circle of friends: despite having architects, they face the same problems as we do (defects, absence of site managers, minor planning errors, lack of communication, etc.), with the difference that they have to pay the architect, and we don’t.
We considered this very carefully and decided to proceed without an architect, fully aware that it involves significantly more work. We do not regret this decision. However, the choice depends on many factors.
The fee sounds reasonable for Project 1. However, due to the declining workload for architects, there may still be room for negotiation. Excluding individual trades during phase 8 of the service phases must also be agreed upon by the architect. This could lead to discussions. The scope and content of construction supervision, as well as the documentation of construction progress, should be clearly defined in the contract and tailored to the specific project. Otherwise, it will lead to disputes later. The contractor is responsible for delivering a defect-free building, and the architect, if properly engaged, has the duty of care to ensure that a defect-free building is achieved. Ultimately, both are liable for their respective contractual obligations, including the architect, indirectly. Even with a regional GC with an impeccable reputation, there is a first time. I speak from first-hand experience here. Therefore, as mentioned at the outset, when working with a GC, involve an independent expert and personally check every step of the work—what is documented is legally binding.
We considered this very carefully and decided to proceed without an architect, fully aware that it involves significantly more work. We do not regret this decision. However, the choice depends on many factors.
The fee sounds reasonable for Project 1. However, due to the declining workload for architects, there may still be room for negotiation. Excluding individual trades during phase 8 of the service phases must also be agreed upon by the architect. This could lead to discussions. The scope and content of construction supervision, as well as the documentation of construction progress, should be clearly defined in the contract and tailored to the specific project. Otherwise, it will lead to disputes later. The contractor is responsible for delivering a defect-free building, and the architect, if properly engaged, has the duty of care to ensure that a defect-free building is achieved. Ultimately, both are liable for their respective contractual obligations, including the architect, indirectly. Even with a regional GC with an impeccable reputation, there is a first time. I speak from first-hand experience here. Therefore, as mentioned at the outset, when working with a GC, involve an independent expert and personally check every step of the work—what is documented is legally binding.
BlackSwan schrieb:
About the project: Two identical apartment buildings with 7-9 residential units each are to be constructed. Total living area per building is approximately 450 m² (4,844 sq ft).
[...] because when I run the HOAI calculator then [...] Who cares about HOAI when you have a planning contract for 14/18 residential units to award?
By the way, I’m actually missing the usually omitted Phase 9 from the service phases here.
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