ᐅ Mandatory heating system rental for new builds – is that allowed?
Created on: 17 Nov 2022 11:23
M
Maulwurfbau
Hello Forum,
I’m new here.
We plan to build and have come across a problem that is causing us a lot of headaches. I would like to hear your opinions on it.
A new residential development is being established in our town. Based on the developments of the last few months, the chances of us getting a plot are quite good. Fewer people want to build now. Money is tighter.
The building regulations are very strict. Among other things, a heat supply concept was developed in cooperation with the local utility company, which to me feels more like a stimulus program for the utility than anything else. But maybe I’m missing something.
For noise reasons, ground source heat collectors are being used, which the utility company is installing over a large area. The heating technology comes from the utility and can be used for a fee for either 10 or 15 years. The costs are outrageous compared to a standard air-to-water heat pump system for a KfW 55 or KfW 40 house.
Regarding the costs:
A one-time construction subsidy and connection fee of about €25,000 (approximately $27,000) must be paid. This covers the collector installation and connection to the network. Then, depending on the capacity of the heat pump provided, a monthly basic fee/service charge for availability of roughly €200 to €280 (approximately $215 to $300) per month for 6 kW must be paid for 10 or 15 years. On top of that, there are the actual heating costs, which here are about 8 cents per kWh (approximately 8 cents per kWh).
I am quite upset because the builders
1) cannot choose their own technology
2) are forced to design their energy system to fit into the utility’s infrastructure
3) am tied to paying the utility a fixed fee for 10 or 15 years
4) after this period, have to either install their own technology at their own expense (there is only a lifelong right to use the heat source) or continue with the utility’s system, possibly with further payments
5) it is not allowed/foreseen to couple the photovoltaic system to the heat exchanger, only to the household electricity (Is this really sustainable?)
What do you think? Of course, geothermal energy is much more efficient than air heat pumps, but if I add everything up, I will have paid between €58,000 and €64,000 (approximately $63,000 to $69,500) over 10 or 15 years (connection costs + technology rental + service fees, etc.) to the local utility, and that doesn’t even include the actual heat costs, which will be additional. I don’t own anything, and after 10–15 years, I have to deal with more costs to figure out what to do next.
I find this extremely exploitative and more like a sustainable stimulus program for the local utility rather than a truly sustainable heating concept.
What am I missing? This whole thing is being sold to the builders as especially sustainable. Environment and all that. And nobody complains; they are building like crazy.
I’m new here.
We plan to build and have come across a problem that is causing us a lot of headaches. I would like to hear your opinions on it.
A new residential development is being established in our town. Based on the developments of the last few months, the chances of us getting a plot are quite good. Fewer people want to build now. Money is tighter.
The building regulations are very strict. Among other things, a heat supply concept was developed in cooperation with the local utility company, which to me feels more like a stimulus program for the utility than anything else. But maybe I’m missing something.
For noise reasons, ground source heat collectors are being used, which the utility company is installing over a large area. The heating technology comes from the utility and can be used for a fee for either 10 or 15 years. The costs are outrageous compared to a standard air-to-water heat pump system for a KfW 55 or KfW 40 house.
Regarding the costs:
A one-time construction subsidy and connection fee of about €25,000 (approximately $27,000) must be paid. This covers the collector installation and connection to the network. Then, depending on the capacity of the heat pump provided, a monthly basic fee/service charge for availability of roughly €200 to €280 (approximately $215 to $300) per month for 6 kW must be paid for 10 or 15 years. On top of that, there are the actual heating costs, which here are about 8 cents per kWh (approximately 8 cents per kWh).
I am quite upset because the builders
1) cannot choose their own technology
2) are forced to design their energy system to fit into the utility’s infrastructure
3) am tied to paying the utility a fixed fee for 10 or 15 years
4) after this period, have to either install their own technology at their own expense (there is only a lifelong right to use the heat source) or continue with the utility’s system, possibly with further payments
5) it is not allowed/foreseen to couple the photovoltaic system to the heat exchanger, only to the household electricity (Is this really sustainable?)
What do you think? Of course, geothermal energy is much more efficient than air heat pumps, but if I add everything up, I will have paid between €58,000 and €64,000 (approximately $63,000 to $69,500) over 10 or 15 years (connection costs + technology rental + service fees, etc.) to the local utility, and that doesn’t even include the actual heat costs, which will be additional. I don’t own anything, and after 10–15 years, I have to deal with more costs to figure out what to do next.
I find this extremely exploitative and more like a sustainable stimulus program for the local utility rather than a truly sustainable heating concept.
What am I missing? This whole thing is being sold to the builders as especially sustainable. Environment and all that. And nobody complains; they are building like crazy.
W
WilderSueden30 Nov 2022 23:57You are overlooking the economies of scale that come into play with a project like this. There is a big difference between building 50 houses with individual systems independently and at different times, compared to one system for 50 houses.
And of course, he pays for the underfloor heating himself; the entire heating network naturally applies only up to the transfer point. Sometimes I really wonder why you feel the need to constantly pick fights with everyone and argue your side with half-baked reasons.
And of course, he pays for the underfloor heating himself; the entire heating network naturally applies only up to the transfer point. Sometimes I really wonder why you feel the need to constantly pick fights with everyone and argue your side with half-baked reasons.
M
Maulwurfbau1 Dec 2022 10:04xMisterDx schrieb:
How are the 8 cents/kWh calculated? Electricity? Actual heat?Price per unit of heat energy, cents/kWh gross.M
Maulwurfbau1 Dec 2022 10:06k-man2021 schrieb:
The original poster mentioned a surface collector, not drilling. That should be significantly cheaper… although I didn’t understand whether it will be installed on their own property or elsewhere. If it’s not a trench collector, I wouldn’t want it on my property anyway, because then you can’t plant trees in that area. It is designed as a large-area system along the edges of the entire residential neighborhood.
M
Maulwurfbau1 Dec 2022 10:41The point is simple: compared to now, I would pay more than double per year for heating over the next 15 years, and I don’t even recognize the technology. What happens after that is also uncertain. This is anything but sustainable.
My expectation is that the more economies of scale there are and the longer the packages are bundled, the cheaper it should become compared to other concepts from the past five years.
(I currently live in a house with KfW55 standard air-to-water heat pump, 140sqm (1507 sq ft), and my annual cost for hot water and heating is less than 1000€ (exactly 891€).
In the new build, it would be fixed for 15 years, with a basic fee of 2500€/year plus a heat energy price of 8 cents/kWh, which is not fixed. Honestly, that’s almost a rip-off.
Keep in mind, I would have paid 25,000€ in connection costs just to participate in this scheme at all. And I don’t own any of it. Nothing. Zero.
Come on... anyone who thinks this is a good deal is seeing through rose-colored glasses... (sorry for the blunt words... but no matter how I look at it, I just can’t rate it differently).
My expectation is that the more economies of scale there are and the longer the packages are bundled, the cheaper it should become compared to other concepts from the past five years.
(I currently live in a house with KfW55 standard air-to-water heat pump, 140sqm (1507 sq ft), and my annual cost for hot water and heating is less than 1000€ (exactly 891€).
In the new build, it would be fixed for 15 years, with a basic fee of 2500€/year plus a heat energy price of 8 cents/kWh, which is not fixed. Honestly, that’s almost a rip-off.
Keep in mind, I would have paid 25,000€ in connection costs just to participate in this scheme at all. And I don’t own any of it. Nothing. Zero.
Come on... anyone who thinks this is a good deal is seeing through rose-colored glasses... (sorry for the blunt words... but no matter how I look at it, I just can’t rate it differently).
Maulwurfbau schrieb:
paying twice as much for heating as I do now and haven’t even heard of the technology. What comes after that is also only partially clear. This is simply far from sustainable. I think the matter should be assessed more objectively and not compared with outdated standards.
No one said sustainability is cheap(er). We will be required to do a lot more in the future. And no: that doesn’t mean I approve of it just because I make this statement.
S
Sunshine3871 Dec 2022 19:11However, as long as this is only upheld by us in Europe and Russia, China, and all the emerging economies do not participate in climate protection, it will be impossible to stop global warming.