ᐅ Mandatory heating system rental for new builds – is that allowed?
Created on: 17 Nov 2022 11:23
M
Maulwurfbau
Hello Forum,
I’m new here.
We plan to build and have come across a problem that is causing us a lot of headaches. I would like to hear your opinions on it.
A new residential development is being established in our town. Based on the developments of the last few months, the chances of us getting a plot are quite good. Fewer people want to build now. Money is tighter.
The building regulations are very strict. Among other things, a heat supply concept was developed in cooperation with the local utility company, which to me feels more like a stimulus program for the utility than anything else. But maybe I’m missing something.
For noise reasons, ground source heat collectors are being used, which the utility company is installing over a large area. The heating technology comes from the utility and can be used for a fee for either 10 or 15 years. The costs are outrageous compared to a standard air-to-water heat pump system for a KfW 55 or KfW 40 house.
Regarding the costs:
A one-time construction subsidy and connection fee of about €25,000 (approximately $27,000) must be paid. This covers the collector installation and connection to the network. Then, depending on the capacity of the heat pump provided, a monthly basic fee/service charge for availability of roughly €200 to €280 (approximately $215 to $300) per month for 6 kW must be paid for 10 or 15 years. On top of that, there are the actual heating costs, which here are about 8 cents per kWh (approximately 8 cents per kWh).
I am quite upset because the builders
1) cannot choose their own technology
2) are forced to design their energy system to fit into the utility’s infrastructure
3) am tied to paying the utility a fixed fee for 10 or 15 years
4) after this period, have to either install their own technology at their own expense (there is only a lifelong right to use the heat source) or continue with the utility’s system, possibly with further payments
5) it is not allowed/foreseen to couple the photovoltaic system to the heat exchanger, only to the household electricity (Is this really sustainable?)
What do you think? Of course, geothermal energy is much more efficient than air heat pumps, but if I add everything up, I will have paid between €58,000 and €64,000 (approximately $63,000 to $69,500) over 10 or 15 years (connection costs + technology rental + service fees, etc.) to the local utility, and that doesn’t even include the actual heat costs, which will be additional. I don’t own anything, and after 10–15 years, I have to deal with more costs to figure out what to do next.
I find this extremely exploitative and more like a sustainable stimulus program for the local utility rather than a truly sustainable heating concept.
What am I missing? This whole thing is being sold to the builders as especially sustainable. Environment and all that. And nobody complains; they are building like crazy.
I’m new here.
We plan to build and have come across a problem that is causing us a lot of headaches. I would like to hear your opinions on it.
A new residential development is being established in our town. Based on the developments of the last few months, the chances of us getting a plot are quite good. Fewer people want to build now. Money is tighter.
The building regulations are very strict. Among other things, a heat supply concept was developed in cooperation with the local utility company, which to me feels more like a stimulus program for the utility than anything else. But maybe I’m missing something.
For noise reasons, ground source heat collectors are being used, which the utility company is installing over a large area. The heating technology comes from the utility and can be used for a fee for either 10 or 15 years. The costs are outrageous compared to a standard air-to-water heat pump system for a KfW 55 or KfW 40 house.
Regarding the costs:
A one-time construction subsidy and connection fee of about €25,000 (approximately $27,000) must be paid. This covers the collector installation and connection to the network. Then, depending on the capacity of the heat pump provided, a monthly basic fee/service charge for availability of roughly €200 to €280 (approximately $215 to $300) per month for 6 kW must be paid for 10 or 15 years. On top of that, there are the actual heating costs, which here are about 8 cents per kWh (approximately 8 cents per kWh).
I am quite upset because the builders
1) cannot choose their own technology
2) are forced to design their energy system to fit into the utility’s infrastructure
3) am tied to paying the utility a fixed fee for 10 or 15 years
4) after this period, have to either install their own technology at their own expense (there is only a lifelong right to use the heat source) or continue with the utility’s system, possibly with further payments
5) it is not allowed/foreseen to couple the photovoltaic system to the heat exchanger, only to the household electricity (Is this really sustainable?)
What do you think? Of course, geothermal energy is much more efficient than air heat pumps, but if I add everything up, I will have paid between €58,000 and €64,000 (approximately $63,000 to $69,500) over 10 or 15 years (connection costs + technology rental + service fees, etc.) to the local utility, and that doesn’t even include the actual heat costs, which will be additional. I don’t own anything, and after 10–15 years, I have to deal with more costs to figure out what to do next.
I find this extremely exploitative and more like a sustainable stimulus program for the local utility rather than a truly sustainable heating concept.
What am I missing? This whole thing is being sold to the builders as especially sustainable. Environment and all that. And nobody complains; they are building like crazy.
[A QUOTE="Maulwurfbau, post: 605276, member: 59970"]
A one-time construction grant and connection fee of approximately €25,000 (~$27,000) is to be paid. This covers the collector system installation and the connection to the network. Depending on the heat pump’s capacity that is installed, a monthly basic fee/service charge for provision will be paid for 10 or 15 years—around €200 to €280 (~$215 to $300) per month for a 6 kW unit. On top of that, the actual heating costs apply, which are about 8 cents per kWh (~8 cents per kWh) here.
[/QUOTE]
From a current new development area with central heating supply, I can say that an additional €15,000 (~$16,000) must be paid upon land purchase for the development of the heating plant and heating network. However, this already includes a pellet-fired heating plant, so no additional heat pumps are necessary. Customers then receive heat for an additional basic price of €15 (~$16) per month. The builder procures a transfer station themselves (costing €6,000 to €8,000 (~$6,500 to $8,700) including installation), and the heat price is pre-set. I don’t know the exact rate, but it is intended to be a flexible price that is adjusted based on a specified clause linked to pellet price development.
Your numbers seem very high to me. €25,000 (~$27,000) per house connection just for a collector field with pressure maintenance as a heat source for the decentralized heat pumps? So basically a low-temperature district heating network. I don’t find €200 (~$215) per month for the heat pump far-fetched. A €20,000 (~$21,500) investment + 4% interest over 15 years usage period results in an annuity of about €1,800 (~$1,940) per year. Adding reserves for repairs, that fits.
Are the heating costs fixed? I doubt it, because the electricity price over 15 years is very unpredictable, and the utility company won’t take that risk. How is measurement done? Heat quantity? Electricity meter?
Is the network with the collector field already under construction? If yes, then it was probably built without subsidies. In 2022, there were almost no subsidies available for heating networks (due to slow policy), but now there are grants of over 50% for low-temperature district heating, which might explain the high price.
A one-time construction grant and connection fee of approximately €25,000 (~$27,000) is to be paid. This covers the collector system installation and the connection to the network. Depending on the heat pump’s capacity that is installed, a monthly basic fee/service charge for provision will be paid for 10 or 15 years—around €200 to €280 (~$215 to $300) per month for a 6 kW unit. On top of that, the actual heating costs apply, which are about 8 cents per kWh (~8 cents per kWh) here.
[/QUOTE]
From a current new development area with central heating supply, I can say that an additional €15,000 (~$16,000) must be paid upon land purchase for the development of the heating plant and heating network. However, this already includes a pellet-fired heating plant, so no additional heat pumps are necessary. Customers then receive heat for an additional basic price of €15 (~$16) per month. The builder procures a transfer station themselves (costing €6,000 to €8,000 (~$6,500 to $8,700) including installation), and the heat price is pre-set. I don’t know the exact rate, but it is intended to be a flexible price that is adjusted based on a specified clause linked to pellet price development.
Your numbers seem very high to me. €25,000 (~$27,000) per house connection just for a collector field with pressure maintenance as a heat source for the decentralized heat pumps? So basically a low-temperature district heating network. I don’t find €200 (~$215) per month for the heat pump far-fetched. A €20,000 (~$21,500) investment + 4% interest over 15 years usage period results in an annuity of about €1,800 (~$1,940) per year. Adding reserves for repairs, that fits.
Are the heating costs fixed? I doubt it, because the electricity price over 15 years is very unpredictable, and the utility company won’t take that risk. How is measurement done? Heat quantity? Electricity meter?
Is the network with the collector field already under construction? If yes, then it was probably built without subsidies. In 2022, there were almost no subsidies available for heating networks (due to slow policy), but now there are grants of over 50% for low-temperature district heating, which might explain the high price.
W
WilderSueden17 Nov 2022 13:14dertill schrieb:
Costs of €20,000 plus 4% interest over a 15-year service life result in an annual payment of about €1,800. Add reserves for repairs, and that seems reasonable. You also have the additional €25,000 for infrastructure. With drilling and the heat pump, there are significant economies of scale, and the network is installed while everything is already being excavated for site development. So, it mainly involves materials and only a small amount of extra work. Therefore, this should cover the entire infrastructure. No loan is needed, so no interest applies. For maintenance and reserves, certainly less than €2,000 per year is sufficient, and the property benefits from economies of scale as well.
I can understand your frustration; it does seem like a lot to me as well. As WilderSüden mentions, especially the monthly basic fee of over 200€ (about $220) is quite excessive.
However, none of this will help you. If the plots are tied to these conditions, you either have to accept it or give up the plot.
I’m also not sure if I would do it in your situation. The already high costs don’t exactly inspire confidence. And then becoming dependent on this "system" once the price agreement ends is risky. If you decide to opt out after 10-15 years and build something on your own, you will have just spent 10-15 years heating at a high cost. At least, that’s my gut feeling.
However, none of this will help you. If the plots are tied to these conditions, you either have to accept it or give up the plot.
I’m also not sure if I would do it in your situation. The already high costs don’t exactly inspire confidence. And then becoming dependent on this "system" once the price agreement ends is risky. If you decide to opt out after 10-15 years and build something on your own, you will have just spent 10-15 years heating at a high cost. At least, that’s my gut feeling.
M
Maulwurfbau17 Nov 2022 14:20kati1337 schrieb:
I can understand your frustration; it also seems excessive to me. As WilderSüden points out, especially the monthly basic fee of over 200€ (about $220) is quite outrageous.
However, none of this will help you. If the plots of land are tied to this, you either have to swallow the bitter pill or give up the plot.
I’m not sure I would do it in your place either. The already high costs don’t exactly inspire confidence. Becoming dependent on this "system" once the price agreement ends is risky. If you exit after 10-15 years and install your own system, you will have just spent 10-15 years heating expensively. At least that’s my gut feeling. Yes, that’s exactly my impression too. 15 years of expensive heating and then having to pay again for new technology or continue heating relatively expensively.
The utility company will probably say the price per kilowatt-hour for heating is ONLY 8 cents/kWh. It’s hard to find cheaper heating... ;-)
But yes, it is tied to the land—take it or leave it is the motto. It’s not just that; I’m also not allowed to connect the photovoltaic system to the utility’s equipment because of sustainability ;-) . Which basically means that I should feed in power at 7 cents/kWh instead of using it myself, so that the utility can sell back the power I fed in at 7 cents for 37 cents ;-) .
S
SaniererNRW12317 Nov 2022 14:59Tolentino schrieb:
Buy yourself an air conditioner. You can also use it for heating by using the photovoltaic electricity, and in summer you’ll benefit from it as well.No, that’s even more impractical. The original poster HAS to pay for the connection, the monthly costs, and then is supposed to install a separate "heating system" on top of that? It doesn’t get any more expensive than that.