K
knalltüte17 May 2020 21:21bazinga schrieb:
...The standard installation height of approximately 10mm (0.4 inches) should be noted.”
.. I believe this means your floor covering should be roughly 10mm (0.4 inches) thick so that door frames and similar elements fit properly.
You will likely be allowed, of course before construction starts, to inform the builder if you plan to use a significantly thinner or thicker floor covering so that frames and other components can be adjusted in time.
The screed will hardly have an unevenness of 2cm (0.8 inches), but I’m not sure what the applicable DIN standard specifies on this.
The specialist @KlaRa will probably be able to provide more precise information.
"Thank you for the compliments," superzapp!
It is indeed as you described.
In construction practice, it is common to indicate height measurements as negative values in millimeters (mm), because everything is referenced from the final zero line (related to the fixed meter mark).
-10mm means that with a standard smoothing compound thickness of 2mm, 8mm remain for the top layer.
No, it is true that a deviation of 20mm (2cm (0.8 inches)) no longer corresponds to the tolerance limits for surface evenness.
And applying a smoothing compound is always necessary for elastic, textile coverings, and also for floating floor systems with click installation. One reason for this is that screed installers can only achieve the flatness level prescribed in line 3 of DIN 18202 (Table 3) with great effort—and they are not required to do so!
It should not matter if someone complains about an extra cost of about €200 (for the smoothing compound) and, to save money, simply installs the flooring onto the screed using the click method. This will backfire—and very quickly.
The cost saving can lead to “soft” spots in the walking surface and creaking noises, because the screed is breaking down (no fine smoothing compound applied), and each step will produce a subtle cracking sound.
However, the homeowner can and must accept this! After all, they have to live with the consequences they knowingly choose—and may also have to pay for the removal and reinstallation by someone who understands floor technology.
BUT: the homeowner will certainly not save money by skipping the smoothing compound!
It’s gotten late—wishing everyone a good night!
KlaRa
It is indeed as you described.
In construction practice, it is common to indicate height measurements as negative values in millimeters (mm), because everything is referenced from the final zero line (related to the fixed meter mark).
-10mm means that with a standard smoothing compound thickness of 2mm, 8mm remain for the top layer.
No, it is true that a deviation of 20mm (2cm (0.8 inches)) no longer corresponds to the tolerance limits for surface evenness.
And applying a smoothing compound is always necessary for elastic, textile coverings, and also for floating floor systems with click installation. One reason for this is that screed installers can only achieve the flatness level prescribed in line 3 of DIN 18202 (Table 3) with great effort—and they are not required to do so!
It should not matter if someone complains about an extra cost of about €200 (for the smoothing compound) and, to save money, simply installs the flooring onto the screed using the click method. This will backfire—and very quickly.
The cost saving can lead to “soft” spots in the walking surface and creaking noises, because the screed is breaking down (no fine smoothing compound applied), and each step will produce a subtle cracking sound.
However, the homeowner can and must accept this! After all, they have to live with the consequences they knowingly choose—and may also have to pay for the removal and reinstallation by someone who understands floor technology.
BUT: the homeowner will certainly not save money by skipping the smoothing compound!
It’s gotten late—wishing everyone a good night!
KlaRa
Thank you very much for the clarification.
This means that after handing over the keys, the screed throughout the entire house needs to be leveled. We are supposed to achieve a total height of 10mm (0.4 inches) with the leveling compound, underlay foil, and vinyl flooring; otherwise, adjustments will be necessary? I will need a professional for this, as I am not familiar with the process and the risks of improper fitting concern me regarding the floor. What approximate costs should be expected for hiring an external contractor to handle an area of about 110m² (without bathrooms and basement)?
For the basement (50m²), we are considering installing an Easyground floor – does this also require leveling beforehand? The basement slab is made of waterproof reinforced concrete. Below the slab, perimeter insulation is installed. The basement is constructed as a “white tank” (usage class A). On the exterior, a PMB waterproofing layer (polymer-modified bitumen thick coating) is applied to the joint areas.
This means that after handing over the keys, the screed throughout the entire house needs to be leveled. We are supposed to achieve a total height of 10mm (0.4 inches) with the leveling compound, underlay foil, and vinyl flooring; otherwise, adjustments will be necessary? I will need a professional for this, as I am not familiar with the process and the risks of improper fitting concern me regarding the floor. What approximate costs should be expected for hiring an external contractor to handle an area of about 110m² (without bathrooms and basement)?
For the basement (50m²), we are considering installing an Easyground floor – does this also require leveling beforehand? The basement slab is made of waterproof reinforced concrete. Below the slab, perimeter insulation is installed. The basement is constructed as a “white tank” (usage class A). On the exterior, a PMB waterproofing layer (polymer-modified bitumen thick coating) is applied to the joint areas.
bazinga schrieb:
This means that after handing over the keys, the screed throughout the house must be leveled. Yes, that's exactly right! At least if you are working according to the generally accepted professional standards.
bazinga schrieb:
We are supposed to achieve a total height of 10mm (0.4 inches) with leveling compound, insulation foil, and vinyl flooring; otherwise, adjustments are necessary? Yes, that’s correct! The screed height was calculated to allow 10mm (0.4 inches) for the floor buildup including auxiliary materials.
bazinga schrieb:
In the basement (50m² (540 ft²)) we are considering installing the floor with Easyground—does this also need to be leveled beforehand? From what I understand, "Easyground" is a two-component synthetic resin material applied at approximately 400g/m² (0.08 lb/ft²). It acts as a sealant.
Whether you need to level the surface beforehand depends on the condition of the existing substrate and the intended use of the space. Using a "bumpy" floor later as living space is different from using it as a hobby room.
The usage class A mainly relates to the construction and indicates to contractors that the area must be waterproofed. Watertight concrete (WU concrete) is resistant even against pressurized water but cannot completely block water vapor diffusion (without waterproofing, the rooms would become unacceptably damp).
Regards, KlaRa
I have been looking further into the topic and want to understand the best approach when leveling a larger area with liquid leveling compound.
Based on a total build-up height of 10mm (0.4 inches), I assume the following values:
- Vinyl flooring: 5mm (0.2 inches) (e.g., planeo click vinyl Greenland)
- Underlay foil: thickness 1.5mm (0.06 inches) (e.g., planeo impact sound insulation Silence)
This leaves a residual height of 4.5mm (0.18 inches) for the leveling compound. There is no underfloor heating. The screed is floating and consists of thermal insulation, a separating layer, and cement screed.
Akit 203 self-leveling compound has a consumption of 1.5kg/sqm (3.3 lbs/sqft) per mm of layer thickness. For an area of 20sqm (215 sq ft) and a thickness of 4.5mm (0.18 inches), this corresponds to 135kg (297 lbs). For example, for a 2mm (0.08 inches) height adjustment, 60kg (132 lbs) of leveling compound would be needed. Per square meter, the leveling compound is therefore cheaper than the underlay foil at the same thickness.
What is the recommended procedure when leveling floors with transitions? Should one seal the transition in room 1 with a wooden strip, level room 1 and let it dry, then remove the wooden seal and level the rest of the area the next day? Or can this be done in one step? The area to be worked on is about 50sqm (538 sq ft) per floor.
Does the screed need a primer or bonding agent before applying the self-leveling compound?
Is anything missing from this general procedure: new screed (installed by the builder) – clean and vacuum – level screed with self-leveling compound – install underlay foil – lay vinyl flooring – done?
Based on a total build-up height of 10mm (0.4 inches), I assume the following values:
- Vinyl flooring: 5mm (0.2 inches) (e.g., planeo click vinyl Greenland)
- Underlay foil: thickness 1.5mm (0.06 inches) (e.g., planeo impact sound insulation Silence)
This leaves a residual height of 4.5mm (0.18 inches) for the leveling compound. There is no underfloor heating. The screed is floating and consists of thermal insulation, a separating layer, and cement screed.
Akit 203 self-leveling compound has a consumption of 1.5kg/sqm (3.3 lbs/sqft) per mm of layer thickness. For an area of 20sqm (215 sq ft) and a thickness of 4.5mm (0.18 inches), this corresponds to 135kg (297 lbs). For example, for a 2mm (0.08 inches) height adjustment, 60kg (132 lbs) of leveling compound would be needed. Per square meter, the leveling compound is therefore cheaper than the underlay foil at the same thickness.
What is the recommended procedure when leveling floors with transitions? Should one seal the transition in room 1 with a wooden strip, level room 1 and let it dry, then remove the wooden seal and level the rest of the area the next day? Or can this be done in one step? The area to be worked on is about 50sqm (538 sq ft) per floor.
Does the screed need a primer or bonding agent before applying the self-leveling compound?
Is anything missing from this general procedure: new screed (installed by the builder) – clean and vacuum – level screed with self-leveling compound – install underlay foil – lay vinyl flooring – done?
Hello "bazinga". It seems there is quite a bit of confusion regarding the understanding here.
A vinyl floor with a click installation typically has a material thickness of 5mm (2 inches).
For a total height of 10mm (4 inches), the PE foil does not take up 1.5mm (0.06 inches), but only 0.15mm (0.006 inches) thickness. In my opinion, that is a significant difference!
So effectively, you have 5mm (2 inches) minus the leveling compound.
We need to consider the leveling compound with a minimum thickness of 2mm (0.08 inches). At 1.5kg/m² (0.31 lb/sq ft), that would mean about 3kg/m² (0.62 lb/sq ft) of compound, resulting in roughly 60kg (132 lbs) for 20m² (215 sq ft)!
The PE foil is not a waterproof membrane but a vapor barrier. Although this is not required for moisture protection under heterogeneous or homogeneous PVC coverings, it can certainly be used as an "anti-friction layer."
Back to the total build-up height:
If approximately 7mm (0.28 inches) of the 10mm (0.4 inches) are used by the flooring and the leveling compound, that leaves 3mm (0.12 inches) remaining, which can be disregarded. This is because transition strips are always necessary at room junctions when flooring is laid loosely, and these easily compensate for those 3mm (0.12 inches).
The workflow is always continuous. That means an entire floor level is covered with leveling compound after the whole surface has been sanded (mandatory cleaning sanding), vacuumed, and primed using a roller.
Only then is the leveling compound applied, which must be de-aerated using a spiked roller.
A primer also acts as an adhesion bridge!
My suggestion: have all this work done by a professional. Otherwise, it will probably not work out! And with an uneven or rough subfloor, you won’t be happy with the top covering, which does not tolerate such imperfections.
Rule of thumb: Wives tend to have little tolerance for uneven floor elements...
Best regards, KlaRa
A vinyl floor with a click installation typically has a material thickness of 5mm (2 inches).
For a total height of 10mm (4 inches), the PE foil does not take up 1.5mm (0.06 inches), but only 0.15mm (0.006 inches) thickness. In my opinion, that is a significant difference!
So effectively, you have 5mm (2 inches) minus the leveling compound.
We need to consider the leveling compound with a minimum thickness of 2mm (0.08 inches). At 1.5kg/m² (0.31 lb/sq ft), that would mean about 3kg/m² (0.62 lb/sq ft) of compound, resulting in roughly 60kg (132 lbs) for 20m² (215 sq ft)!
The PE foil is not a waterproof membrane but a vapor barrier. Although this is not required for moisture protection under heterogeneous or homogeneous PVC coverings, it can certainly be used as an "anti-friction layer."
Back to the total build-up height:
If approximately 7mm (0.28 inches) of the 10mm (0.4 inches) are used by the flooring and the leveling compound, that leaves 3mm (0.12 inches) remaining, which can be disregarded. This is because transition strips are always necessary at room junctions when flooring is laid loosely, and these easily compensate for those 3mm (0.12 inches).
The workflow is always continuous. That means an entire floor level is covered with leveling compound after the whole surface has been sanded (mandatory cleaning sanding), vacuumed, and primed using a roller.
Only then is the leveling compound applied, which must be de-aerated using a spiked roller.
A primer also acts as an adhesion bridge!
My suggestion: have all this work done by a professional. Otherwise, it will probably not work out! And with an uneven or rough subfloor, you won’t be happy with the top covering, which does not tolerate such imperfections.
Rule of thumb: Wives tend to have little tolerance for uneven floor elements...
Best regards, KlaRa
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