ᐅ Bus system / Home installation, seeking advice and cost planning

mottom schrieb:
It’s not about speaking badly, but rather everyone should consider beforehand what is practical and worth the money, and what is just an expensive gimmick.

That way, additional costs remain somewhat manageable.
Have a nice evening...

I personally have had the software for several years. My first experience with EIB was in 1992, followed by training on ETS1 and purchasing a license.
Problem: You can hardly sell this stuff in the private sector. Public installations are another matter, such as hospitals, government buildings, etc.
Some architects only focus on the price, and that’s where the fun ends. The client then opts for the cheap version with relay switching because KNX components + materials + configuration/planning + wiring get expensive.
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Many customers often don’t want complex technology – technophobia. One just wanted a 63A cam switch at the house entrance: all on – all off. Done.

There has been a lot written about cost/benefit. Personally, I was never really convinced by KNX/EIB and ended up stashing the stuff somewhere in storage.

On the open market, there are plenty of other bus systems. I currently know a colleague in Bulgaria who builds and programs sophisticated Ethernet/WiFi interfaces that can be controlled remotely from any PC. There are also Android apps that allow you to water balcony plants in Croatia remotely. Tablets with 10-inch (25 cm) screens, running Windows 7, with GUIs provide enough interfaces for remote control in the house. When you compare what KNX/EIB specialized visualization displays cost, it’s a big difference.
In heating systems, a well adjusted and configured heating system should run autonomously;
with EIB, there is barely any saving potential. Every remotely controlled relay card is noticeably cheaper.
Roller shutter controls are available from many manufacturers. Central locking can also be managed with KNX.
Intruder alarm systems via KNX? What security standard do these currently meet? I once heard that some insurance companies do not accept KNX because it can be manipulated.
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I have also dealt with homeMatic (elv). I find some solutions not bad.

Conventionally, I would anyway run all lighting cables to the distribution board on each floor. Whether the panel is 2-row or 8-row, the price difference is not significant anymore. Copper is cheap anyway.
I would build push-button wiring on a DC basis? I built and engraved my own control panels. Often clearer than those overpriced KNX push-buttons.
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Siemens once said: This stuff will get cheaper anyway.
For a microchip made in Taiwan for 10 cents and then sold at a high price in an actuator, I find the device prices outrageous. Power supplies aside, since good power supplies always cost money.

What makes more sense to me personally: Install LAN Cat cables wherever possible—in hallways, children’s rooms, living rooms, kitchens. There, you can connect servers, cameras, sensors, Ethernet-LAN interfaces, and control numerous devices worldwide via the Internet.

KNX/EIB has cut off its own legs in the private sector. Mercedes is smarter here. They installed the CAN bus – no garage mechanic messes with that anymore.
They could have given local electricians extra business, but the industry was/is too greedy.

I personally threw out EIB years ago. My conclusion: a waste of time.
Today I prefer riding my bike through the forest and sitting in a beer garden.
If you want to control your roller shutters from your iPhone, go ahead and install the KNX bus.

Good luck

What is the difference between KNX and EIB? Do you have an electrical store in Kamnik?
Do you need different wiring for that?

I plan to install a network in nearly every room anyway.
What convinces me about the bus system is that I have fewer switches and that the switches can be programmed.

Yes, the equipment is definitely expensive ;(

Regards, Stefan

Stefanoi schrieb:
What is the difference between KNX and EIB? .. do you have an electrical supply store, kamnik?
Do you need a different type of wiring for that?

I will install a network in almost every room anyway.
What convinces me about the bus system is that I have fewer switches and can also program the switches.

It used to be called EIB; nowadays it is mostly referred to as KNX. I haven't looked into it for a long time. That stuff was enough for me when they made the EIB or KNX technology accessible to "home configurators" at the trade fair without any ETS software.
After that event, I just put all that equipment somewhere in a corner.

You pull the power cables to the floor distributors to the respective actuators.
For the sensors, you install the modified telephone cable (YSTY 2x2x0.8 KNX) to the respective sensors (pushbuttons) as a ring, star, or combined layout? It is a bus cable, after all.

An electrical supply store? – With a net profit of less than 2.95%, no one opens an electrical store anymore nowadays. For whom? The tax office or Greece?
People outsource the work and no longer do it themselves.

You will do less programming there. It is more about parameterization, actually.

kamnik schrieb:

KNX/EIB has shot itself in the foot in the private sector. Mercedes is smarter—they use the CAN bus, so no garage mechanic can meddle with it.
They could have offered the local electrician some extra business, but the industry was/is too greedy.

Personally, I threw EIB away years ago. My conclusion: a waste of time.
Nowadays, I’d rather ride my bike through the forest and sit in a beer garden.
If you want to control your roller shutter from your iPhone, go ahead and install the KNX bus.

Good luck

I see that we almost share the same opinion.
My comment about the manageable costs was not necessarily referring to KNX.