ᐅ Heating System for New Single-Family Home: Air-to-Air or Air-to-Water?
Created on: 14 Jan 2020 15:17
D
daniel1985ffo
Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum and would like to get some information about heating systems.
We will probably start building our house in 2020. Now the question of which heating system to choose has come up.
There is no gas connection on the property, but everything else is available.
I did some research, and gas is no longer an option for me.
Now I am wondering whether to install an air-to-air heat pump or an air-to-water heat pump.
Ground source heat pumps are not an option due to drilling costs and the permitting process.
I currently have a photovoltaic system with almost 9 kWp capacity (built in 11/2019) on my outbuilding, which will be transferred to the new house.
What are your personal opinions on air-to-air versus air-to-water heat pumps?
Best regards,
daniel1985ffo
I am new to the forum and would like to get some information about heating systems.
We will probably start building our house in 2020. Now the question of which heating system to choose has come up.
There is no gas connection on the property, but everything else is available.
I did some research, and gas is no longer an option for me.
Now I am wondering whether to install an air-to-air heat pump or an air-to-water heat pump.
Ground source heat pumps are not an option due to drilling costs and the permitting process.
I currently have a photovoltaic system with almost 9 kWp capacity (built in 11/2019) on my outbuilding, which will be transferred to the new house.
What are your personal opinions on air-to-air versus air-to-water heat pumps?
Best regards,
daniel1985ffo
D
daniel1985ffo14 Jan 2020 17:19Other utilities like electricity, water, and sewage are already connected to the property. That’s what I meant by the rest, but the pipeline was also good.
Yes, I will wait first to see what is actually included in the offer in terms of insulation values, etc. Then I will get back to you. But comparing it to the car dealership is definitely a great reference as well.
Yes, I will wait first to see what is actually included in the offer in terms of insulation values, etc. Then I will get back to you. But comparing it to the car dealership is definitely a great reference as well.
N
nordanney14 Jan 2020 19:05daniel1985ffo schrieb:
Yes, I’m waiting first to see what the offer actually includes, regarding insulation values and so on.
After that, I’ll get back in touch. Perfect! Then you will get plenty of advice on what might be practical.
Höhlenmensch23 Jan 2020 19:53Here’s a small warning in advance:
You’ll receive so much information that it’s almost like studying heating technology.
It’s best if you can already rule out some options beforehand, such as no deep drilling due to rocky ground or no south-facing orientation, making solar panels unsuitable.
Don’t rely on company information; they will often claim that even with a north-facing orientation, you can still generate a few watts with solar. Take some time to do your own research on YouTube, where you can find informative content.
Also, since price is ultimately decisive, you need to consider whether you are willing to invest a bit more for the sake of our shared future and if it matters to you to move forward with a future-oriented approach.
I belong to the other type (the one with a hedgehog in his pocket) and have experienced that when I criticize prices, I’m told we have to think about the future and immediately go for a heat pump and solar.
Unfortunately, I still have to pay my own heating costs.
Since I’m writing here anyway, a personal question if anyone is reading:
I still use an old oil heating system and am considering switching the boiler to a condensing boiler.
It’s supposed to reduce oil consumption by up to 20%. A friend switched to condensing a year ago because his chimney was defective (like me, he doesn’t have gas available on the street).
It’s difficult to compare winters without constantly collecting data, but he says he hasn’t reached the 20%. In his opinion, it’s only about 10%!
If I assume the worst-case scenario of 10% savings and compare that to the investment cost of the new boiler and the new exhaust chimney required for condensing technology, it roughly comes down to 20 years for the payback period.
That’s why I’m still thinking it over. Has anyone switched already and can share more positive experiences?
I would also like to operate a deep geothermal drilling (borehole) and brine heat pump combined with photovoltaic panels on the roof, but when I look at the payback period, I’d rather spend that money on trips to a “warmer” south more often.
Greetings from the environmental oddball who would still gladly be a friend of “Greta” if his investment portfolio wouldn’t keep grounding him in reality.
nordanney schrieb:
Perfect! Then you’ll get plenty of tips on what might make sense.
You’ll receive so much information that it’s almost like studying heating technology.
It’s best if you can already rule out some options beforehand, such as no deep drilling due to rocky ground or no south-facing orientation, making solar panels unsuitable.
Don’t rely on company information; they will often claim that even with a north-facing orientation, you can still generate a few watts with solar. Take some time to do your own research on YouTube, where you can find informative content.
Also, since price is ultimately decisive, you need to consider whether you are willing to invest a bit more for the sake of our shared future and if it matters to you to move forward with a future-oriented approach.
I belong to the other type (the one with a hedgehog in his pocket) and have experienced that when I criticize prices, I’m told we have to think about the future and immediately go for a heat pump and solar.
Unfortunately, I still have to pay my own heating costs.
Since I’m writing here anyway, a personal question if anyone is reading:
I still use an old oil heating system and am considering switching the boiler to a condensing boiler.
It’s supposed to reduce oil consumption by up to 20%. A friend switched to condensing a year ago because his chimney was defective (like me, he doesn’t have gas available on the street).
It’s difficult to compare winters without constantly collecting data, but he says he hasn’t reached the 20%. In his opinion, it’s only about 10%!
If I assume the worst-case scenario of 10% savings and compare that to the investment cost of the new boiler and the new exhaust chimney required for condensing technology, it roughly comes down to 20 years for the payback period.
That’s why I’m still thinking it over. Has anyone switched already and can share more positive experiences?
I would also like to operate a deep geothermal drilling (borehole) and brine heat pump combined with photovoltaic panels on the roof, but when I look at the payback period, I’d rather spend that money on trips to a “warmer” south more often.
Greetings from the environmental oddball who would still gladly be a friend of “Greta” if his investment portfolio wouldn’t keep grounding him in reality.
B
boxandroof23 Jan 2020 20:16How is your solar project progressing???
Höhlenmensch24 Jan 2020 15:11@boxandroof
Thanks for asking, great to see someone who thinks along and pays attention!
My previous project took a bit longer and is still not finished.
A friend saw this and together we bought a solar water collector about 1m*2m (flat/no pipes) from surplus stock on "the bay" for 70,-. For simplicity, we didn’t install it on the roof but placed it fully facing south in the garden and connected it to a 150-liter (40-gallon) PE tank. We added a small circulation pump and let it run. By evening, the water was not just warm but even hot!
He was really impressed. For my use, we then oriented the collector to the west with the result that it was still fully capable of providing shower water. Since it was heated directly and in real use the heat exchanger will reduce the efficiency somewhat. But since the usage is not that high when you are a "self-builder," that’s acceptable.
We have already researched sourcing these collectors directly from China, and since you order several parts anyway, you get an additional industrial discount. I have already ordered a few other items directly from China as a test and had good experiences with DHL including customs clearance. DHL handles everything in China and delivers straight to here.
Even though the performance in spring and autumn won’t be as good, I plan to install 3 or 4 of these on the roof to either produce or at least support the hot water supply. I also shower warm in the summer mornings (warm-shower user) and this saves me quite a bit because I switch off the boiler in the summer and heat the water separately with a 3kW electric heating element that is timer-controlled. (It’s worth it, even though heating contractors say you should keep the boiler running continuously—you always have to question what’s considered standard!)
The project is still unfinished partly because I’m planning an extension, which has also been delayed due to new building regulations, energy saving ordinances, and so on. Unfortunately, things don’t move as fast as you’d like.
(Since you’re observant—my post about Ytong blocks how thick?!)
This extension will not have a pitched roof, so I will be able to fully face the collectors south. I might also be able to divert some heat to help with heating in the transitional seasons since I have underfloor heating with tile floors, and sometimes have cold floors because the heating is off during the day when it gets warm again. (A little warning for builders planning underfloor heating with tiles in living areas.)
Maybe a few more square meters, but I won’t reach 9 units (which are required if you want to qualify for subsidies).
Once the construction is far enough along, I will post prices and then results and experiences in case there are other DIYers interested. Maybe someone also wants to join in a direct import to get better prices. I will get back to you in time.
Until then, best regards from Höhlenmensch
Thanks for asking, great to see someone who thinks along and pays attention!
My previous project took a bit longer and is still not finished.
A friend saw this and together we bought a solar water collector about 1m*2m (flat/no pipes) from surplus stock on "the bay" for 70,-. For simplicity, we didn’t install it on the roof but placed it fully facing south in the garden and connected it to a 150-liter (40-gallon) PE tank. We added a small circulation pump and let it run. By evening, the water was not just warm but even hot!
He was really impressed. For my use, we then oriented the collector to the west with the result that it was still fully capable of providing shower water. Since it was heated directly and in real use the heat exchanger will reduce the efficiency somewhat. But since the usage is not that high when you are a "self-builder," that’s acceptable.
We have already researched sourcing these collectors directly from China, and since you order several parts anyway, you get an additional industrial discount. I have already ordered a few other items directly from China as a test and had good experiences with DHL including customs clearance. DHL handles everything in China and delivers straight to here.
Even though the performance in spring and autumn won’t be as good, I plan to install 3 or 4 of these on the roof to either produce or at least support the hot water supply. I also shower warm in the summer mornings (warm-shower user) and this saves me quite a bit because I switch off the boiler in the summer and heat the water separately with a 3kW electric heating element that is timer-controlled. (It’s worth it, even though heating contractors say you should keep the boiler running continuously—you always have to question what’s considered standard!)
The project is still unfinished partly because I’m planning an extension, which has also been delayed due to new building regulations, energy saving ordinances, and so on. Unfortunately, things don’t move as fast as you’d like.
(Since you’re observant—my post about Ytong blocks how thick?!)
This extension will not have a pitched roof, so I will be able to fully face the collectors south. I might also be able to divert some heat to help with heating in the transitional seasons since I have underfloor heating with tile floors, and sometimes have cold floors because the heating is off during the day when it gets warm again. (A little warning for builders planning underfloor heating with tiles in living areas.)
Maybe a few more square meters, but I won’t reach 9 units (which are required if you want to qualify for subsidies).
Once the construction is far enough along, I will post prices and then results and experiences in case there are other DIYers interested. Maybe someone also wants to join in a direct import to get better prices. I will get back to you in time.
Until then, best regards from Höhlenmensch
B
boxandroof24 Jan 2020 15:44Thank you for the interesting report, and I wish you good luck and even more enjoyment with the ongoing implementation!
I have no direct experience with switching to a condensing system. The depreciation costs of the new installation will most likely exceed the savings. You might want to roughly calculate how much oil savings would be necessary to justify the investment in a new heating system at all. Even without exact data on savings, this might already make the project pointless — at least as long as the existing heating system is still working.
Probably more effective are affordable but efficient insulation measures if your house has any easy-to-seal gaps. A roof fully equipped with photovoltaic panels still applies! You can invest the returns from that into a new heating system when the old one reaches the end of its service life.
Höhlenmensch schrieb:
I still use an old oil heating system and am considering switching the boiler to a condensing boiler. It is said to use up to 20% less oil. A friend of mine switched to condensing last year because of a defective chimney (like me, he doesn't have gas supply in the street).
I have no direct experience with switching to a condensing system. The depreciation costs of the new installation will most likely exceed the savings. You might want to roughly calculate how much oil savings would be necessary to justify the investment in a new heating system at all. Even without exact data on savings, this might already make the project pointless — at least as long as the existing heating system is still working.
Probably more effective are affordable but efficient insulation measures if your house has any easy-to-seal gaps. A roof fully equipped with photovoltaic panels still applies! You can invest the returns from that into a new heating system when the old one reaches the end of its service life.
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