Hello everyone,
I am about to take on a very large project (voluntarily) and would appreciate hearing different opinions.
[SITUATION:]
My grandmother (86) owns a 2,300m2 (approximately 25,000 sq ft) plot of land near Frankfurt. Her two daughters will eventually inherit it, but the relationship among the three of them is poor. I am the grandson (31) and get along well with my mother and, uniquely, very well with my grandmother. I am the only one who visits her weekly, does her shopping, and takes care of things for her.
Since my mother and aunt are estranged and unable to handle this inheritance, I am currently considering “stepping in.” Neither my mother nor my aunt could buy out the other, and both would be overwhelmed by such a large property. Selling the entire property is generally ruled out by everyone. That is where I come in, as I would like to take over the whole thing. My mother intends to gift me her share because she wants nothing to do with it. I have not yet spoken with my aunt about this, but that will happen soon. My grandmother approves of my plan since I have been helping maintain the property for years and she knows it would be in good hands with me.
About the property/house:
2,300m2 (approximately 25,000 sq ft), within a short driving distance to Frankfurt. The land can be divided into three parts:
[IMPLEMENTATION]
This is where the challenge lies. I divide my plan according to the property parts. The timelines are short-, medium-, and long-term.
[Part 1 (2019–2021):]
My grandmother wants to gift me Part 1 this year—the meadow. The value is just under 200,000 euros (approximately $215,000), which would be below the inheritance tax threshold for me as a grandson. I would like to build a house with three apartments and rent them out. Since my grandmother’s health is still relatively good, my plan is to build equity with this house until she passes away. Currently, my wife and I can save 15,000 euros (approximately $16,000) per year, which we could invest in this project. Additionally, during this period, my wife will receive a payout from her brother, amounting to 50,000 euros (approximately $54,000). So we already have some equity, including the land itself.
[Part 2 (after my grandmother’s passing):]
Once my grandmother has passed, I would have to buy out my aunt. This will certainly be a significant financial challenge. I would then rent out my grandmother’s two apartments. The local rent rate is about 8 euros (approximately $8.50) per square meter.
[Part 3 (financially dependent):]
The listed barn is my big dream home. I would love to renovate it and live there myself. Being nearby would also make managing and maintaining the property easier. However, this will require a substantial amount of money. Despite available tax benefits for historic properties, this will probably not be easy right after taking out a loan to buy out my aunt.
What do you think? Does it make sense for me to have Part 1 transferred to me now so I can start immediately? Or should I hold off, continue saving, and be prepared to buy out my aunt later? However, if my aunt does not cooperate, this could cause major problems. Inheritance tax is also an important factor given the size of the property. In two weeks, my grandmother plans to speak with her daughters about what they want to do. There are actually no plans yet for the entire property; the three have never really discussed it. I will openly present my idea to all parties. If you have any further suggestions (including tactically smart ways to deal with inheritance tax), I would be very grateful. By the way, the inheritance tax issue is what set this whole process in motion. I want to find a good solution here. My mother and aunt have so far avoided the topic, which I consider highly irresponsible given the asset’s value. Last but not least, I have a sister who supports my plan and currently makes no claim to the property.
Thank you
Bornheimer
I am about to take on a very large project (voluntarily) and would appreciate hearing different opinions.
[SITUATION:]
My grandmother (86) owns a 2,300m2 (approximately 25,000 sq ft) plot of land near Frankfurt. Her two daughters will eventually inherit it, but the relationship among the three of them is poor. I am the grandson (31) and get along well with my mother and, uniquely, very well with my grandmother. I am the only one who visits her weekly, does her shopping, and takes care of things for her.
Since my mother and aunt are estranged and unable to handle this inheritance, I am currently considering “stepping in.” Neither my mother nor my aunt could buy out the other, and both would be overwhelmed by such a large property. Selling the entire property is generally ruled out by everyone. That is where I come in, as I would like to take over the whole thing. My mother intends to gift me her share because she wants nothing to do with it. I have not yet spoken with my aunt about this, but that will happen soon. My grandmother approves of my plan since I have been helping maintain the property for years and she knows it would be in good hands with me.
About the property/house:
2,300m2 (approximately 25,000 sq ft), within a short driving distance to Frankfurt. The land can be divided into three parts:
| Part 1 About 650m2 (approximately 7,000 sq ft) Garden with apple trees | Part 2 About 850m2 (approximately 9,150 sq ft) Residential house (built in 1966), two apartments each 100m2 (approximately 1,075 sq ft). Very solid condition, basement, new heating system, annual maintenance work | Part 3 About 800m2 (approximately 8,600 sq ft) Old sandstone barn (historic monument), good condition, garage, large paved courtyard. Everything in very good condition |
[IMPLEMENTATION]
This is where the challenge lies. I divide my plan according to the property parts. The timelines are short-, medium-, and long-term.
[Part 1 (2019–2021):]
My grandmother wants to gift me Part 1 this year—the meadow. The value is just under 200,000 euros (approximately $215,000), which would be below the inheritance tax threshold for me as a grandson. I would like to build a house with three apartments and rent them out. Since my grandmother’s health is still relatively good, my plan is to build equity with this house until she passes away. Currently, my wife and I can save 15,000 euros (approximately $16,000) per year, which we could invest in this project. Additionally, during this period, my wife will receive a payout from her brother, amounting to 50,000 euros (approximately $54,000). So we already have some equity, including the land itself.
[Part 2 (after my grandmother’s passing):]
Once my grandmother has passed, I would have to buy out my aunt. This will certainly be a significant financial challenge. I would then rent out my grandmother’s two apartments. The local rent rate is about 8 euros (approximately $8.50) per square meter.
[Part 3 (financially dependent):]
The listed barn is my big dream home. I would love to renovate it and live there myself. Being nearby would also make managing and maintaining the property easier. However, this will require a substantial amount of money. Despite available tax benefits for historic properties, this will probably not be easy right after taking out a loan to buy out my aunt.
What do you think? Does it make sense for me to have Part 1 transferred to me now so I can start immediately? Or should I hold off, continue saving, and be prepared to buy out my aunt later? However, if my aunt does not cooperate, this could cause major problems. Inheritance tax is also an important factor given the size of the property. In two weeks, my grandmother plans to speak with her daughters about what they want to do. There are actually no plans yet for the entire property; the three have never really discussed it. I will openly present my idea to all parties. If you have any further suggestions (including tactically smart ways to deal with inheritance tax), I would be very grateful. By the way, the inheritance tax issue is what set this whole process in motion. I want to find a good solution here. My mother and aunt have so far avoided the topic, which I consider highly irresponsible given the asset’s value. Last but not least, I have a sister who supports my plan and currently makes no claim to the property.
Thank you
Bornheimer
How much are the three land parcels realistically worth each?
Is there any additional assets, such as accounts, cash, etc.?
In short: Could you take all the properties, pay the inheritance tax, and compensate everyone else their mandatory or regular shares?
Disinheriting, gifting, etc., can destroy families. Please consider this carefully.
One more note: Are these already three separate plots, or would they still need to be divided?
Is there any additional assets, such as accounts, cash, etc.?
In short: Could you take all the properties, pay the inheritance tax, and compensate everyone else their mandatory or regular shares?
Disinheriting, gifting, etc., can destroy families. Please consider this carefully.
One more note: Are these already three separate plots, or would they still need to be divided?
B
Bornheimer15 Aug 2019 13:36The land value standard is 220 euros. The three plots are therefore worth over half a million euros.
The plots have indeed already been divided; my grandmother showed me the boundary stones. There are additional plots, but they are farmland and currently not worth much. No further assets.
The family relationship is already broken. Through the gift and payout, I want to avoid creating a new source of conflict that would then be passed on to my generation. Simply put: I want to take full ownership of the entire property and have no further contact with my aunt’s side of the family. It should be a definitive break. Accordingly, my mother and sister fully support me and want the same. Inheritance tax would, of course, be a painful expense, but if it contributes to solving the problem, it might be worth considering. However, I don’t know how banks would react to such a plan. I currently do not have significant equity.
The plots have indeed already been divided; my grandmother showed me the boundary stones. There are additional plots, but they are farmland and currently not worth much. No further assets.
The family relationship is already broken. Through the gift and payout, I want to avoid creating a new source of conflict that would then be passed on to my generation. Simply put: I want to take full ownership of the entire property and have no further contact with my aunt’s side of the family. It should be a definitive break. Accordingly, my mother and sister fully support me and want the same. Inheritance tax would, of course, be a painful expense, but if it contributes to solving the problem, it might be worth considering. However, I don’t know how banks would react to such a plan. I currently do not have significant equity.
Then simply give half immediately as a gift to yourself and your mother, if necessary also to the sister, but the fewer people involved, the easier it will be. At the same time, disinherit the rest by will, leaving everything else to you both.
Be careful about the potential costs for long-term care or a nursing home later on. Grandma cannot give away her assets early to avoid this, as the state has claims.
Gifts are offset against the inheritance for 10 years, decreasing by 10% each year. I'll ask directly: how long do you estimate your grandma will live?
Also, watch out for what those who are disinherited might do. There is a thread here about reversing a gift.
In principle, you should have some money reserved for legal disputes—and not too little.
Be careful about the potential costs for long-term care or a nursing home later on. Grandma cannot give away her assets early to avoid this, as the state has claims.
Gifts are offset against the inheritance for 10 years, decreasing by 10% each year. I'll ask directly: how long do you estimate your grandma will live?
Also, watch out for what those who are disinherited might do. There is a thread here about reversing a gift.
In principle, you should have some money reserved for legal disputes—and not too little.
B
Buchweizen15 Aug 2019 14:07Are you sure that the inheritance tax would be unbearably high? There are actually large tax exemptions.
B
Bornheimer15 Aug 2019 14:07Physically, my grandmother’s condition is gradually worsening. She has not been able to ride a bicycle for three years but does not need a walker or cane. Mentally, she is very sharp. It is hard to say for sure, but at the moment, it looks like she will easily reach 90 years of age. She will turn 86 in two weeks. By the way, she comes from the construction industry and encourages me to build next door or to convert the barn.
My grandmother could use the tax exemptions for our case as follows: 400,000 for my mother and 200,000 each for my sister and me. This would probably leave only a small amount of inheritance tax to be paid. What would happen to my aunt? Would she receive a payout immediately upon being disinherited?
My grandmother could use the tax exemptions for our case as follows: 400,000 for my mother and 200,000 each for my sister and me. This would probably leave only a small amount of inheritance tax to be paid. What would happen to my aunt? Would she receive a payout immediately upon being disinherited?
Bornheimer schrieb:
How would my aunt be affected?Ideally, the aunt wouldn’t be involved at all.The grandmother would simply need to create a will stating that the aunt does not receive anything. How to best distribute the remainder can be discussed further. Afterwards, the will should be registered in the central registry, or whatever it’s called, to ensure nothing gets lost. A notary can provide advice, including regarding gifts and donations.
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