Hello everyone,
We are currently planning our home’s technical systems. We will be installing an air-to-water heat pump, and my husband saw these Nest thermostats at his brother-in-law’s place and now absolutely wants them. Setting aside that these devices are quite expensive… how much do typical thermostats usually cost? Of course, there are probably all kinds of price ranges, but I mean the standard white or gray control units. Does anyone have experience with Nest? Do they just look good, or are these thermostats also effective? Can you tell the heating specialist, “Hey, skip your usual thermostats and install these ones instead?”
Thanks in advance for your help.
We are currently planning our home’s technical systems. We will be installing an air-to-water heat pump, and my husband saw these Nest thermostats at his brother-in-law’s place and now absolutely wants them. Setting aside that these devices are quite expensive… how much do typical thermostats usually cost? Of course, there are probably all kinds of price ranges, but I mean the standard white or gray control units. Does anyone have experience with Nest? Do they just look good, or are these thermostats also effective? Can you tell the heating specialist, “Hey, skip your usual thermostats and install these ones instead?”
Thanks in advance for your help.
S
Sebastian7920 Oct 2015 10:09I would like to see you achieve temperature differences of 5-7 degrees Celsius (9-13°F) in a modern house (preferably with a controlled mechanical ventilation system). Additionally, cooling a room like this is very inefficient because the adjacent rooms have to compensate. In the worst case, this can lead to building damage.
By the way, you can also throttle a room as desired without an electronic radiator regulator (ERR) — simply turn the valve off. Sure, it won’t be on a sleek, digital NEST thermostat, but the effect is the same.
You have to abandon the idea that you can climate-control individual rooms (that’s what such statements imply) — that may have worked in grandma’s house (although it really never worked well), but not in today’s houses.
By the way, you can also throttle a room as desired without an electronic radiator regulator (ERR) — simply turn the valve off. Sure, it won’t be on a sleek, digital NEST thermostat, but the effect is the same.
You have to abandon the idea that you can climate-control individual rooms (that’s what such statements imply) — that may have worked in grandma’s house (although it really never worked well), but not in today’s houses.
Bautraum201520 Oct 2015 10:11@Musketier
I’m wondering the same thing.
But if the underfloor heating is so slow that it takes a whole day to raise the temperature by 1 degree, I can hardly just heat the kids’ room spontaneously (e.g., bad weather, child inside)… right?
So here comes a smart thermostat idea: most of them use weather data. Then they know, “Ah, a cold snap tomorrow, I’ll send the command to raise the temperature by 1°.”
Or am I making a mistake in this line of thinking?
I’m wondering the same thing.
But if the underfloor heating is so slow that it takes a whole day to raise the temperature by 1 degree, I can hardly just heat the kids’ room spontaneously (e.g., bad weather, child inside)… right?
So here comes a smart thermostat idea: most of them use weather data. Then they know, “Ah, a cold snap tomorrow, I’ll send the command to raise the temperature by 1°.”
Or am I making a mistake in this line of thinking?
S
Sebastian7920 Oct 2015 10:14A misconception, since no weather forecast provides such precise data – you can see that every day from your weather app. And then for the exact location?
A well-adjusted heating curve with an outdoor temperature-controlled system is sufficient – the sensor should, of course, be installed properly.
You are assuming unrealistic expectations that a surface heating system cannot meet – and which practically no one implements. Most people only adjust their thermostats once in their lifetime...
Again: With a controlled ventilation system, you have nearly the same temperature throughout the house!
A well-adjusted heating curve with an outdoor temperature-controlled system is sufficient – the sensor should, of course, be installed properly.
You are assuming unrealistic expectations that a surface heating system cannot meet – and which practically no one implements. Most people only adjust their thermostats once in their lifetime...
Again: With a controlled ventilation system, you have nearly the same temperature throughout the house!
Bautraum201520 Oct 2015 10:16However, we do not have a mechanical ventilation system for indoor air quality.
Ok, thanks for your input. We will carefully consider everything.
Ok, thanks for your input. We will carefully consider everything.
S
Sebastian7920 Oct 2015 10:17Why not opt for a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery? Just out of curiosity.
@WildThing
Well, we assume that the room air is heated to the desired temperature, so the floor has a slightly higher temperature.
Now the sun comes into play and primarily heats the floor because this is where the sunlight hits and where the greatest energy transfer occurs.
With ERR (energy recovery regulation), the room is isolated from the overall system and "cooled down" until the air temperature reaches the setpoint again. This most likely happens late in the evening. In the meantime, the room overheats, and you need to ventilate to remove the excess heat or simply endure the discomfort. Meanwhile, all other rooms in the house need to stay heated because the sun doesn’t shine everywhere. The heat generator is therefore still running. Since ERR devices also have hysteresis, the room will cool below the setpoint and will need to be reheated during the night.
Without ERR, the room remains connected to the overall system. The water in the underfloor heating is warmed by the sun since it shines on the floor. Due to circulation, the additional heat is not confined to that room but distributed throughout the entire system. This results in significantly less overheating in the room, and north-facing rooms also benefit from some solar gain. The heat generator must supply much less energy to maintain the temperature throughout the whole system.
ERR devices are essentially what they are: an emergency brake.
You can compare it casually to driving a car...
With ERR, you’re constantly driving at full throttle and only control the speed with the brakes.
Without ERR, you apply only as much throttle as needed to maintain the desired speed.
Which driving style do you think is more efficient?
Additionally, there is the not insignificant electricity consumption of the ERR devices, the extra control valves, and the regulation system. Each valve typically consumes 2W continuously. Over a typical heating season, this results in about 150 kWh in electricity costs for a typical household, roughly 40 euros per year in savings if avoided. And I’m only talking about the valves here; the rest of the unnecessary regulation also consumes electricity.
Well, we assume that the room air is heated to the desired temperature, so the floor has a slightly higher temperature.
Now the sun comes into play and primarily heats the floor because this is where the sunlight hits and where the greatest energy transfer occurs.
With ERR (energy recovery regulation), the room is isolated from the overall system and "cooled down" until the air temperature reaches the setpoint again. This most likely happens late in the evening. In the meantime, the room overheats, and you need to ventilate to remove the excess heat or simply endure the discomfort. Meanwhile, all other rooms in the house need to stay heated because the sun doesn’t shine everywhere. The heat generator is therefore still running. Since ERR devices also have hysteresis, the room will cool below the setpoint and will need to be reheated during the night.
Without ERR, the room remains connected to the overall system. The water in the underfloor heating is warmed by the sun since it shines on the floor. Due to circulation, the additional heat is not confined to that room but distributed throughout the entire system. This results in significantly less overheating in the room, and north-facing rooms also benefit from some solar gain. The heat generator must supply much less energy to maintain the temperature throughout the whole system.
ERR devices are essentially what they are: an emergency brake.
You can compare it casually to driving a car...
With ERR, you’re constantly driving at full throttle and only control the speed with the brakes.
Without ERR, you apply only as much throttle as needed to maintain the desired speed.
Which driving style do you think is more efficient?
Additionally, there is the not insignificant electricity consumption of the ERR devices, the extra control valves, and the regulation system. Each valve typically consumes 2W continuously. Over a typical heating season, this results in about 150 kWh in electricity costs for a typical household, roughly 40 euros per year in savings if avoided. And I’m only talking about the valves here; the rest of the unnecessary regulation also consumes electricity.
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