Hello everyone,
We are currently planning our home’s technical systems. We will be installing an air-to-water heat pump, and my husband saw these Nest thermostats at his brother-in-law’s place and now absolutely wants them. Setting aside that these devices are quite expensive… how much do typical thermostats usually cost? Of course, there are probably all kinds of price ranges, but I mean the standard white or gray control units. Does anyone have experience with Nest? Do they just look good, or are these thermostats also effective? Can you tell the heating specialist, “Hey, skip your usual thermostats and install these ones instead?”
Thanks in advance for your help.
We are currently planning our home’s technical systems. We will be installing an air-to-water heat pump, and my husband saw these Nest thermostats at his brother-in-law’s place and now absolutely wants them. Setting aside that these devices are quite expensive… how much do typical thermostats usually cost? Of course, there are probably all kinds of price ranges, but I mean the standard white or gray control units. Does anyone have experience with Nest? Do they just look good, or are these thermostats also effective? Can you tell the heating specialist, “Hey, skip your usual thermostats and install these ones instead?”
Thanks in advance for your help.
B
Bauexperte20 Oct 2015 11:45Bautraum2015 schrieb:
Is it only about the money? When I see that the recommended system controller from Vaillant costs...450€ each No.
The ERR system has its justification. Especially in schools, offices, and buildings used temporarily. In rental apartments, I believe it is also mandatory to install these controllers.
I also do not think it is generally advisable to skip the ERR. This decision always depends on the individual construction project and its parameters.
Best regards, Bauexperte
@Bauexperte
This example is not well chosen.
I need water at 80°C (176°F) in a few weeks. Now, I can either heat the water now and keep it warm for weeks or heat it in a few weeks when I actually need it. Guess which option uses less energy.
I understand that normally, frequent short-term switching consumes more energy than maintaining a constant temperature. But it really depends on the timing of when the energy is needed.
Even short-term adjustments up and down can be more efficient under certain circumstances, depending on how much heat the rooms lose to the outside.
Imagine an extreme case (100% heat loss to the outside): you have a radiator outdoors and want to warm yourself by it in the evening. You wouldn’t keep the radiator running on level 3 all day, wasting energy unnecessarily, but rather turn it on only when you are sitting in front of it. We had this situation at the beginning in our last apartment with 60cm (24 inches) thick natural stone exterior walls and unused rooms all around. You simply couldn’t heat fast enough to compensate for the heat loss in all directions. If the radiators weren’t running at full power, the place stayed cold.
This example is not well chosen.
I need water at 80°C (176°F) in a few weeks. Now, I can either heat the water now and keep it warm for weeks or heat it in a few weeks when I actually need it. Guess which option uses less energy.
I understand that normally, frequent short-term switching consumes more energy than maintaining a constant temperature. But it really depends on the timing of when the energy is needed.
Even short-term adjustments up and down can be more efficient under certain circumstances, depending on how much heat the rooms lose to the outside.
Imagine an extreme case (100% heat loss to the outside): you have a radiator outdoors and want to warm yourself by it in the evening. You wouldn’t keep the radiator running on level 3 all day, wasting energy unnecessarily, but rather turn it on only when you are sitting in front of it. We had this situation at the beginning in our last apartment with 60cm (24 inches) thick natural stone exterior walls and unused rooms all around. You simply couldn’t heat fast enough to compensate for the heat loss in all directions. If the radiators weren’t running at full power, the place stayed cold.
S
Sebastian7920 Oct 2015 12:01Great example, but it has nothing to do with an insulated new build. As I told you: You can also turn off a room without mechanical ventilation with heat recovery if you think that is appropriate.
That was an extreme example to illustrate that it depends on the circumstances and cannot be generalized.
I still haven't fully understood your solution without ERR. How do you handle such cases? For example, bathing the child once a week at 24°C (75°F). Does that mean the bathroom is always at 24°C (75°F)?
I still haven't fully understood your solution without ERR. How do you handle such cases? For example, bathing the child once a week at 24°C (75°F). Does that mean the bathroom is always at 24°C (75°F)?
I agree with the building expert here as well: in rental apartments and houses with radiators, ERRs (energy recovery radiators) do make sense because they save energy during rapid temperature changes and similar conditions.
In a highly insulated modern house, ERRs actually cause more energy consumption than they save. Everything can be perfectly controlled directly on the heating system, and if the system is properly balanced, no changes are necessary.
Slight temperature variations in different rooms are also normal—I have about a 3K (5.4°F) difference throughout the house depending on the room’s location. You just need to adjust (or have someone adjust) the volume flows.
Longer periods away from the house can also be programmed directly into the heating system so it knows heating is not needed during those times.
And to heat a bathroom, an electric heater is needed, as Sebastian already mentioned.
The low-temperature heating system in a modern detached house and radiators or underfloor heating in a rental apartment or older house are fundamentally different. But many people think in familiar patterns and transfer them directly to a system that works completely differently—basically, “this is how we’ve always done it.”
Regarding the energy conservation law, of course it applies, but in a house you do not only have walls; heat is lost through everything: walls, ceilings, windows, doors, roof slopes, and, of course, ventilation losses. No matter how you look at it, you still have to ventilate occasionally, because without ventilation you face even bigger problems than with ERRs.
In a highly insulated modern house, ERRs actually cause more energy consumption than they save. Everything can be perfectly controlled directly on the heating system, and if the system is properly balanced, no changes are necessary.
Slight temperature variations in different rooms are also normal—I have about a 3K (5.4°F) difference throughout the house depending on the room’s location. You just need to adjust (or have someone adjust) the volume flows.
Longer periods away from the house can also be programmed directly into the heating system so it knows heating is not needed during those times.
And to heat a bathroom, an electric heater is needed, as Sebastian already mentioned.
The low-temperature heating system in a modern detached house and radiators or underfloor heating in a rental apartment or older house are fundamentally different. But many people think in familiar patterns and transfer them directly to a system that works completely differently—basically, “this is how we’ve always done it.”
Regarding the energy conservation law, of course it applies, but in a house you do not only have walls; heat is lost through everything: walls, ceilings, windows, doors, roof slopes, and, of course, ventilation losses. No matter how you look at it, you still have to ventilate occasionally, because without ventilation you face even bigger problems than with ERRs.
Similar topics