Hello
I am new to this forum and unfortunately German is not my native language (Dutch), so please excuse any spelling mistakes.
Last year, we built a W**** house in the Alsace region, and during the handover I found out that our hot water temperature is only 44°C (111°F).
This is due to the air-source heat pump from Stiebel/Eltron (304) that we have.
Washing dishes with greasy pans and so on is impossible; I have to boil water separately to wash dishes by hand.
Our bathroom has a 200-liter (53-gallon) tank. The heating system’s storage tank is 230 liters (61 gallons), so one person can use the bathroom while the next has to wait until the tank heats up again.
I like to shower hot, but 44°C (111°F) is too low for me—it’s okay, but a bit hotter would be better...
I already notice that soap and grease residues remain in the pipes. We have been living in the house for 9 months.
I am not an expert, but I believe that Weberhaus should have informed us beforehand about the specifications of this system. Then I could have said right away that it would not be enough for us. We are also sure that we mentioned this during the preliminary discussions, but of course, nothing is written down.
Now I have the option to install an additional instantaneous water heater and an extra storage tank for €5000.
If we had installed it during the construction, it would have been much cheaper.
I would like to know your opinion. What are my rights regarding W****Haus and what other options do I have?
Thank you in advance
Jan
I am new to this forum and unfortunately German is not my native language (Dutch), so please excuse any spelling mistakes.
Last year, we built a W**** house in the Alsace region, and during the handover I found out that our hot water temperature is only 44°C (111°F).
This is due to the air-source heat pump from Stiebel/Eltron (304) that we have.
Washing dishes with greasy pans and so on is impossible; I have to boil water separately to wash dishes by hand.
Our bathroom has a 200-liter (53-gallon) tank. The heating system’s storage tank is 230 liters (61 gallons), so one person can use the bathroom while the next has to wait until the tank heats up again.
I like to shower hot, but 44°C (111°F) is too low for me—it’s okay, but a bit hotter would be better...
I already notice that soap and grease residues remain in the pipes. We have been living in the house for 9 months.
I am not an expert, but I believe that Weberhaus should have informed us beforehand about the specifications of this system. Then I could have said right away that it would not be enough for us. We are also sure that we mentioned this during the preliminary discussions, but of course, nothing is written down.
Now I have the option to install an additional instantaneous water heater and an extra storage tank for €5000.
If we had installed it during the construction, it would have been much cheaper.
I would like to know your opinion. What are my rights regarding W****Haus and what other options do I have?
Thank you in advance
Jan
A dishwasher can usually be operated with cold water and will then heat the water itself using electricity. At least, that is how it works for us. It’s worth checking the manual or asking how the dishwasher was connected. In my opinion, connecting it to hot water doesn’t make sense if you are working with low temperatures.
For the shower, you can also install a small tankless water heater. In my view, this costs less than the mentioned 5000 €.
Legally, you are at a disadvantage because you bought according to what is stated in the contract. However, I’m not a lawyer and don’t know what options you have.
That said, you do have a problem if you cannot get the temperature above 44°C (111°F). From what I understand, at least a few times a year, you should flush the pipes with water hotter than 60°C (140°F) to protect against Legionella bacteria, which tend to multiply in standing water.
For the shower, you can also install a small tankless water heater. In my view, this costs less than the mentioned 5000 €.
Legally, you are at a disadvantage because you bought according to what is stated in the contract. However, I’m not a lawyer and don’t know what options you have.
That said, you do have a problem if you cannot get the temperature above 44°C (111°F). From what I understand, at least a few times a year, you should flush the pipes with water hotter than 60°C (140°F) to protect against Legionella bacteria, which tend to multiply in standing water.
Thank you for your response. By washing dishes, I meant by hand and not using the dishwasher.
The heating system heats the storage tank up to 60°C (140°F) once a month, but of course, this heat does not reach the pipes.
A tankless water heater would be sufficient for the shower, but not for the entire bathroom.
The heating system heats the storage tank up to 60°C (140°F) once a month, but of course, this heat does not reach the pipes.
A tankless water heater would be sufficient for the shower, but not for the entire bathroom.
Okay, so I can set the temperature I want on my gas boiler and have it set to 45°C (113°F). The water is definitely hot enough to wash pans and pots. Maybe you should try changing your dish soap.
It might just be me, but I find temperatures above 50°C (122°F) uncomfortable, both for showering and washing hands. When our solar system is running at full capacity, we get 60°C (140°F) hot water, and I really have to be careful not to burn my little one when washing his fingers.
My advice: contact a plumbing specialist; they can probably offer you a cost-effective solution. I think Weberhaus is more expensive for these kinds of things than an independent tradesperson.
It might just be me, but I find temperatures above 50°C (122°F) uncomfortable, both for showering and washing hands. When our solar system is running at full capacity, we get 60°C (140°F) hot water, and I really have to be careful not to burn my little one when washing his fingers.
My advice: contact a plumbing specialist; they can probably offer you a cost-effective solution. I think Weberhaus is more expensive for these kinds of things than an independent tradesperson.
Hello,
Best regards.
Havejan schrieb:No problem at all, the main points are clear! Your German is much better than I understand Dutch ;-).
...I am new to this forum and unfortunately German is not my native language (Dutch), so sorry for any spelling mistakes
Havejan schrieb:With an air source heat pump, this is usually the maximum output temperature you can expect, unless you have additional support from an electric heating element. However, the latter is not very energy efficient and can be costly to operate.
...Last year we built a Weberhaus in the Alsace region and at handover I found that our hot water temperature is only 44°C (111°F).
Havejan schrieb:That is correct, but did you ask for this information? Was it agreed in writing?
...I am not an expert, but I believe WeberHaus should have informed us in advance about the specifications of this system.
Havejan schrieb:Unfortunately, that means you have no legal ground, and you may have dealt with a salesperson who did not take your specific requirements into account.
...but of course, nothing is written down anywhere.
Havejan schrieb:An additional storage tank is not necessary. A tankless water heater alone will suffice. Make sure to choose a unit that is suitable for high flow temperatures. Also, pay attention to the hot water flow rate (output capacity)!!!
Now I have the option to install an additional tankless water heater and extra storage for €5000..
Havejan schrieb:Since nothing is documented in writing, any claims afterwards are unlikely to succeed.
What are my rights towards WeberHaus...
Best regards.
Thank you for your response, €uro,
I had little hope that I still had any rights left.
At the beginning, we discussed a lot with the seller, and to be honest, he tried to do his job well. Unfortunately, we also had problems during the preparation with Weberhaus. Sadly, the contract was already signed (we had too much trust).
We had a difficult construction site, and the architect responsible for Weberhaus’s plans and their review in France didn’t fully understand their job and repeatedly overlooked our requests. They also had no knowledge of the French building regulations, although they had all the documents.
This caused bottlenecks and increased pressure on both sides.
Several issues that were discussed during preliminary meetings were not reflected in the plans (which was practically impossible for us to check).
Many of these have been resolved after tough discussions.
We are certain that we discussed this temperature issue, but unfortunately, we cannot prove it.
I also think Weberhaus has now put me on the red list (or maybe even the blacklist) 😎
I contacted a supplier of Viessmann in a nearby village, and they can already help me with a DLH (and possibly a storage unit) for a maximum cost of €2000 (including storage).
I would have preferred to have everything handled by one company (Weberhaus), but €5000 is not an absurdly high amount. I now also understand that prices calculated for interior fittings are at least twice as low as after handover. This is something that is not usually mentioned, but they basically say you can always order more after delivery.
We also still have an ongoing discussion about cracks in the living room. Because Weberhaus only skim-coated the walls instead of plastering them, they want to deny the warranty.
I don’t think we are anywhere near done yet.
I had little hope that I still had any rights left.
At the beginning, we discussed a lot with the seller, and to be honest, he tried to do his job well. Unfortunately, we also had problems during the preparation with Weberhaus. Sadly, the contract was already signed (we had too much trust).
We had a difficult construction site, and the architect responsible for Weberhaus’s plans and their review in France didn’t fully understand their job and repeatedly overlooked our requests. They also had no knowledge of the French building regulations, although they had all the documents.
This caused bottlenecks and increased pressure on both sides.
Several issues that were discussed during preliminary meetings were not reflected in the plans (which was practically impossible for us to check).
Many of these have been resolved after tough discussions.
We are certain that we discussed this temperature issue, but unfortunately, we cannot prove it.
I also think Weberhaus has now put me on the red list (or maybe even the blacklist) 😎
I contacted a supplier of Viessmann in a nearby village, and they can already help me with a DLH (and possibly a storage unit) for a maximum cost of €2000 (including storage).
I would have preferred to have everything handled by one company (Weberhaus), but €5000 is not an absurdly high amount. I now also understand that prices calculated for interior fittings are at least twice as low as after handover. This is something that is not usually mentioned, but they basically say you can always order more after delivery.
We also still have an ongoing discussion about cracks in the living room. Because Weberhaus only skim-coated the walls instead of plastering them, they want to deny the warranty.
I don’t think we are anywhere near done yet.
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