ᐅ Insufficient solar output; how to set up three flat-plate collectors
Created on: 28 Oct 2012 14:25
C
Capone2000
Hello everyone,
We have been living in our beautiful house for several months now, which came with quite a few construction issues. We have managed to resolve most of them, but we are unsure whether our solar system is working correctly.
Here are the key details of our system:
We have a Vaillant solar system with three horizontal flat-plate collectors connected in series, one above the other. Total net surface area: 7.05m² (76 ft²)
Flow rate of the solar fluid: 2 l/min (0.53 gal/min) (the operating manual requires at least 3 l/min (0.79 gal/min), with a recommended flow of 4.6 l/min (1.22 gal/min))
Flow velocity in the circuit: 0.13 m/s (0.43 ft/s) (the manual requires a minimum of 0.4 m/s (1.31 ft/s); otherwise, the Vaillant venting system will not function properly)
Circulation pump type: Wilo RS25/7-3P; power consumption Stage 1: 62 W; Stage 2: 92 W; Stage 3: 132 W; set to Stage 2 as Stage 3 did not noticeably increase the volume flow.
According to Vaillant, this is a low-flow system and everything is fine.
But is that really the case?
We received a tip from a heating technician to check whether the system is set up for three flat-plate collectors, since factory settings often only cater to two collectors. We have searched through the manuals but could not find any setting options.
The controller is the Vaillant auroMATIC 620 model.
Despite repeated follow-ups with the plumbing company that installed the system and Vaillant, we have received no response or feedback for months.
We would greatly appreciate any insights or advice based on experience.
Good luck,
Thomas
We have been living in our beautiful house for several months now, which came with quite a few construction issues. We have managed to resolve most of them, but we are unsure whether our solar system is working correctly.
Here are the key details of our system:
We have a Vaillant solar system with three horizontal flat-plate collectors connected in series, one above the other. Total net surface area: 7.05m² (76 ft²)
Flow rate of the solar fluid: 2 l/min (0.53 gal/min) (the operating manual requires at least 3 l/min (0.79 gal/min), with a recommended flow of 4.6 l/min (1.22 gal/min))
Flow velocity in the circuit: 0.13 m/s (0.43 ft/s) (the manual requires a minimum of 0.4 m/s (1.31 ft/s); otherwise, the Vaillant venting system will not function properly)
Circulation pump type: Wilo RS25/7-3P; power consumption Stage 1: 62 W; Stage 2: 92 W; Stage 3: 132 W; set to Stage 2 as Stage 3 did not noticeably increase the volume flow.
According to Vaillant, this is a low-flow system and everything is fine.
But is that really the case?
We received a tip from a heating technician to check whether the system is set up for three flat-plate collectors, since factory settings often only cater to two collectors. We have searched through the manuals but could not find any setting options.
The controller is the Vaillant auroMATIC 620 model.
Despite repeated follow-ups with the plumbing company that installed the system and Vaillant, we have received no response or feedback for months.
We would greatly appreciate any insights or advice based on experience.
Good luck,
Thomas
B
Bauexperte1 Nov 2012 10:12Hello €uro,
Dear €uro – sometimes, in my opinion, you are guided by one-dimensional thinking.
This is neither about the homeowner having to take over the work of the plumbing company nor the manufacturer; certainly it is not about tinkering with anything!
This thread – as Micha correctly pointed out – is on the one hand about collecting ideas from homeowners to solve the problem; sometimes it really is just small details. On the other hand, it is about holding Vaillant – which so far, through one of their technicians, has not been very successful – accountable. If that fails, the situation you correctly recognized will arise – the homeowner is left to handle it alone, and that must not happen!
I will try my luck with Vaillant in KR again on Monday; I have no intention of giving up or just watching this drama continue. However, this time under the worst possible conditions for this provider. Yesterday, I personally had an encounter with their technical customer service in a private matter. What can I say? A technician also left without fixing anything; he would have preferred that I buy a new boiler. It’s fun when the burner does not do what it was designed for at these temperatures.
Another confirmation of our decision not to work with this manufacturer professionally.
Kind regards
€uro schrieb:
The system was not installed/designed by the homeowner, but someone made money from it and is therefore obligated to deliver a defect-free product! ...Is the homeowner now supposed to tinker with it themselves based on forum remote diagnosis?
Dear €uro – sometimes, in my opinion, you are guided by one-dimensional thinking.
This is neither about the homeowner having to take over the work of the plumbing company nor the manufacturer; certainly it is not about tinkering with anything!
This thread – as Micha correctly pointed out – is on the one hand about collecting ideas from homeowners to solve the problem; sometimes it really is just small details. On the other hand, it is about holding Vaillant – which so far, through one of their technicians, has not been very successful – accountable. If that fails, the situation you correctly recognized will arise – the homeowner is left to handle it alone, and that must not happen!
I will try my luck with Vaillant in KR again on Monday; I have no intention of giving up or just watching this drama continue. However, this time under the worst possible conditions for this provider. Yesterday, I personally had an encounter with their technical customer service in a private matter. What can I say? A technician also left without fixing anything; he would have preferred that I buy a new boiler. It’s fun when the burner does not do what it was designed for at these temperatures.
Another confirmation of our decision not to work with this manufacturer professionally.
Kind regards
B
Bauexperte1 Nov 2012 18:28Hello,
Quite cryptic
I understand that; tomorrow a friend who is a plumbing and heating professional will get in touch and check if your suspicion is correct.
No need to shout. It’s precisely because of this kind of reaction that I wrote you seem to be thinking rather one-sidedly, in my opinion.
I KNOW this is not a manufacturer problem in the usual sense! But I do think Vaillant has a moral obligation to help find a solution. Especially since their licensed contractors and even internal technicians are simply not competent enough :-(
But what if, despite legal and quite clear demands, the GC still fails to get things moving—what then? Should the client wait endlessly while playing a game of Jenga until someone takes action and loses? Things aren’t always simply black and white; there are many shades of grey.
What you suggest—which is of course correct, don’t misunderstand me—requires everyone’s cooperation. Yet the laws and court decisions of this country often take a long time to be enforced by their representatives and lead to actual results.
You can ask questions. By the way, a simple gas condensing boiler with solar domestic hot water isn’t rocket science. And it was planned and sized exactly for this. The error is, as always, human failure. And once again—I stress this—the manufacturer also has a moral responsibility; after all, their licensed partners botched the job.
…and the world is flat.
Not the problem itself, that’s true—but in developing and applying solutions, definitely!
Best regards
€uro schrieb:
Everyone looks at this from a completely different perspective based on their position
Quite cryptic
€uro schrieb:
If you had read my posts more thoroughly, you would have noticed that there is probably a hydraulic issue here!
I understand that; tomorrow a friend who is a plumbing and heating professional will get in touch and check if your suspicion is correct.
€uro schrieb:
That I have to defend the manufacturer, especially this one, I never would have thought! Again, this is not a Vaillant (manufacturer) problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No need to shout. It’s precisely because of this kind of reaction that I wrote you seem to be thinking rather one-sidedly, in my opinion.
I KNOW this is not a manufacturer problem in the usual sense! But I do think Vaillant has a moral obligation to help find a solution. Especially since their licensed contractors and even internal technicians are simply not competent enough :-(
€uro schrieb:
If any subcontractor of a general contractor (GC) can’t handle it and puts something together arbitrarily, he must guarantee and be liable for that, not the manufacturer of a device/system!
But what if, despite legal and quite clear demands, the GC still fails to get things moving—what then? Should the client wait endlessly while playing a game of Jenga until someone takes action and loses? Things aren’t always simply black and white; there are many shades of grey.
What you suggest—which is of course correct, don’t misunderstand me—requires everyone’s cooperation. Yet the laws and court decisions of this country often take a long time to be enforced by their representatives and lead to actual results.
€uro schrieb:
Why not? People should inform themselves beforehand, not complain afterwards. Modern technology requires proper planning and sizing; that’s just a fact. Anyone who thinks a GC wants to do the client (their wallet) a favor should think about the society we live in.
You can ask questions. By the way, a simple gas condensing boiler with solar domestic hot water isn’t rocket science. And it was planned and sized exactly for this. The error is, as always, human failure. And once again—I stress this—the manufacturer also has a moral responsibility; after all, their licensed partners botched the job.
€uro schrieb:
Yep, energy savings up to 80 %
…and the world is flat.
€uro schrieb:
Your problem is by no means comparable to the OP’s, certainly not something to lump together!
Not the problem itself, that’s true—but in developing and applying solutions, definitely!
Best regards
M
Micha&Dany1 Nov 2012 21:13€uro schrieb:
I never thought I would have to defend a manufacturer, especially this one! Once again, it’s not a Vaillant (manufacturer) issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bauexperte schrieb:
and the world is flat.Hello everyone,
just a quick off-topic...
If I may briefly quote the best author in the (*Discworld*) world:
"'Multiple exclamation marks,' he went on, shaking his head, 'are a sure sign of a diseased mind.'"
– from "Eric(!Faust)"
(In the official translation:
"Three exclamation marks," he continued, shaking his head. "A sure sign of a sick mind.")
[Terry Pratchett]
Ah, simply wonderful
Sorry, no offense intended!
Back to the topic:
€uro schrieb:
What good a “rotating field” at 220 V would do, well, you can collect opinions.(1) The voltage in Germany was raised to 230 V a long, long time ago, and
(2) I asked whether the pump is powered by 230 V single-phase or 3-phase (=400 V). Or do you not understand what a rotating field is?? A rotating field only exists in a three-phase system when more than one phase is used (normally – I am leaving aside cases where a capacitor is used to create an artificial rotating field). Hence my question about the power supply...
€uro schrieb:
If a subcontractor of a general contractor cannot handle this and assembles something on their own authority, they must guarantee and be liable for it, not the manufacturer of a device/system!Bauexperte schrieb:
I KNOW this is not a manufacturer problem in the classic sense! BUT I think Vaillant has a moral obligation to assist in finding a solution.That always depends on the company philosophy: If my customers call me because they have a problem, I always help immediately and gladly. Regardless of whether we as a manufacturer made a mistake or not. The "guilty party" can be found after the solution is identified. Then it’s fine to discuss costs and liability. But first, we always solve the problem.
In this regard, my employer has a great attitude – and it would simply be nice if other companies thought the same way...
Best regards
Micha
B
Bauexperte2 Nov 2012 00:32Hello Micha,
"A rule of thumb is always good." Also nice: "Everyone gets old, but who becomes wise?"
Kind regards
"A rule of thumb is always good." Also nice: "Everyone gets old, but who becomes wise?"
Micha&Dany schrieb:I couldn’t put it any better.
... The "culprit" can be looked for after the solution is found. And then we can gladly talk about costs and liability. But first, we always solve the problem.
Kind regards
Micha&Dany schrieb:
Oh, simply wonderful Indeed! Micha&Dany schrieb:
....(2) I asked whether the pump is powered by 230 V or by three-phase (=400 V). The question alone is quite amusing, as it clearly shows a significant lack of knowledge and detachment from reality! Anyone who assumes a three-phase connection based on these performance specifications clearly reveals the reliability of assumptions made by "hobby experts."Best regards
Bauexperte schrieb:
...I have already noted that; tomorrow a friendly plumbing and heating technician will get in touch and check if your assumption is correct. I would be interested in the result!Best regards
Similar topics