ᐅ The situation in the real estate market... unbelievable

Tassimat schrieb:

Reading through this, you have to wonder how a typical family with a craftsman and a saleswoman can even survive without starving.

Probably because they don’t spend 1000 euros on two cars and more like 700 instead of 1000 euros on food. And because they can’t pay 500 euros for savings and private pension like farilo. And also not 400 euros for other insurance, because there is no money for that. From the remaining net income of just over 3000 euros that the two have left, they can live—provided no unexpected event like disability insurance (BU) disrupts their finances, because then things get difficult.

Tassimat schrieb:

Reading through the posts here, you wonder how a typical family with a tradesperson and a salesperson can even survive without starving.

The real issue is the unreflective expectations we now have about our lives. Property prices reflect this just like household budgets do. You can live well on a modest income, but not in a champagne lifestyle.

I’m happy to say “everything was better in the past,” although I’m not sure if that’s true. But the fact is, when I was growing up, only one parent had to work, and the house was bigger, well-equipped, and we went on vacations. There were also new cars in the driveway. None of this was a problem, even with very high loan interest rates.

Fact 2: Today, despite nearly zero interest rates, this is no longer possible. The main reasons are the real estate market bubble and the slow wage growth. But the welfare state also costs money and needs to be funded, with people in need no longer only being from Germany but from all over the world.

Inefficient planning has turned the energy transition and infrastructure projects into disasters.

Meanwhile, the average German citizen debates about paper cups and gender equality, watches Queen of Drags on the couch, and comfortably enjoys a glass of wine or a bottle of beer.

Life is beautiful, even without money.

Bookstar schrieb:

I’m happy to say "everything was better in the past," though I’m not sure if that’s true. The fact is, when I was growing up, only one parent had to work, and the house was bigger, well-equipped, and we went on vacations. New cars were also in the driveway. All of this was no problem, even with very high loan interest rates.

What you describe wasn’t the norm even back then. Your father apparently had a good job, or there was other wealth acquired, or both.
My father had a good job and there were four of us children, each with their own room in the house. My mother didn’t work for income. I lived in a prosperous small town and as a child I was puzzled by people living in apartments, sharing bedrooms, and taking holidays in allotment gardens. I only realized very late in life that my upbringing was privileged—and even later did I truly feel it. That was not and is not the norm. What may have been different in West Germany until the 1980s compared to today was the widespread, unwavering belief among many people that times would continually improve for everyone. That belief made some act with more confidence.

My comparison was, of course, based on the same starting conditions, meaning the same amount of equity and equivalent income or job.

nordanney schrieb:

I still don’t understand this. Even if you give €2,000 (thousand euros) of the €6,000 (thousand euros) for the house, you still have €4,000 left every month. What financial worries do you have then? Even with only €3,000 left, worries are unwarranted.

Then the average family with a €3,500 household income and €1,000 (thousand euros) warm rent would have to lie down on the tracks every week because they are financially ruined. And even these “poor souls” live a carefree good life. If you’re basically a “scaredy-cat,” then you’re in the wrong place here in the home building forum. Because here write those “poor souls” who want to buy a house or an apartment. What exactly is your fear?

Well, I listed example calculations above. You can clearly see how quickly the 5,000 (five thousand) gets eaten up.
Of course, I’m open to counter calculations. Bring them on. I’ll gladly take a look and learn from them. (By the way, I wrote <6k. That means “under 6,000.” Just as a side note.)

Topic average family:

You speak my mind. Thank you.
This average family with a €3,500 (3,500 euros) household income lives a carefree good life.
And still in a rental apartment?! Wow. And even in metropolitan areas like Hamburg, for example? According to you, that’s impossible! Rent alone costs at least €1,500 (1,500 euros), right? And now they even fly on vacation? Amazing.
“You” are those who say that the house with 170 m² (1,830 ft²) on a 1,000 m² (10,800 ft²) plot for €600,000 (600,000 euros) is a must because otherwise it simply doesn’t add up. You’re almost forced to spend €600,000 because otherwise you’d be foolish and lose money.

I’m not a scaredy-cat. However, I am very happy about the fact that at age 38, I already own a fully paid single-family house in Hamburg. I wish this worry-free situation for EVERYONE! That’s why I keep advocating not to unnecessarily get involved in huge costs.

I know very well the added value owning my own single-family home has. I don’t want to give it up anymore. I enjoy looking out the window every day and seeing wild geese at the lake. I never want to give that up.

But personally, I can only enjoy all this as I do because I have already paid off the house.
Would I still enjoy it if I still owed €100,000 (100,000 euros)? Definitely. If it were €120,000 (120,000 euros)? I think so. If it were €350,000 (350,000 euros)? Wow... That burden would hang over my head like a Damocles sword.
It would be doable. Everything’s fine. But for me personally, it would be anything but ideal.
That’s my personal perspective.

I’d rather drive a 2004 Golf that’s paid off than a Bentley I have to pay for 10 more years with 40% of my income.

apokolok schrieb:

With €6,000 (6,000 euros) net income, you can’t afford to buy a house... where do you live?

Please quote me exactly so I can see where I said that.

If you mean that I would find it extremely unwise to buy a place for €600,000 (600,000 euros) with €5,000 (5,000 euros) (also below €6,000) net income and €100,000 (100,000 euros) equity, then I agree.

Edit: You probably mean this statement:

Farilo schrieb:

And with less than €6,000 monthly, in my opinion, sorry to say, you just don’t belong to those who can buy a place for over half a million and live carefree financially.

The emphasis here is on “CAREFREE.” Unless you have a contract securing those €6,000 until the end of your days, then I take it back.

apokolok schrieb:

I even claim that in today’s environment, it’s better for your sleep at night to have a chunk of debt than to stress over your investment strategy for your wealth.

Okay, that certainly says a lot about your attitude.
That’s legit. To each their own.
But then it’s too tedious for me to explain my view to you.
I respect your attitude and wish you much success with it.

Tassimat schrieb:

Reading this here, one wonders how a stereotypical family with a tradesperson and a sales assistant can even survive without starving.

Quite simple:
By not buying a house for €600,000 (600,000 euros).

Bookstar schrieb:

Life is beautiful, even without money.

Right.
And, just imagine, even without a €600,000 (600,000 euros) house.