ᐅ Looking for a General Contractor in the East Berlin Area – Are the Requirements Realistic?

11ant schrieb:

Did they also assign your general contractor?

No. I actually “inherited” mine from the neighbor. The neighbor got it through a property with a building obligation. I didn’t have any obligation for my half and therefore paid more for the land. I was hoping for synergies and was also pressured by the real estate agent. If things had gone more smoothly, I probably would have chosen a different provider from the start, but I felt forced into it.

ypg schrieb:

Well, you already received advice and a house design. So you’re probably stuck with it.

Wow, well, it’s not that simple: a service offer including a floor plan was already provided after the first sales meeting. We only signed the documents later to secure the land. So far, he has done at most what any seller would do during acquisition.

11ant schrieb:

I’m starting to understand what the mysterious “project consultant” means here: apparently a building contract commission broker who attaches himself to a real estate agent’s land offer, acts as middleman, and “sells” the prospective builder to a general contractor (GC) or house manufacturer. He helps a little with the design process and charges extra for this value-added brokerage service as consulting. So he bundles the land, the brokered construction contract, and a little extra hand-holding of the land buyers into one package. With a good criminal lawyer or an overburdened public prosecutor, this might pass as a grey area, or at most result in a fine or case dismissal with conditions. That’s not proper business – I can assure you that independent construction consulting can be done honorably, as many competitors besides myself demonstrate.

No, that’s not entirely correct. We have an independent project consultant. We actually brought him with us from the start. (We only signed his contract once we had something more concrete in mind; we had previous discussions about our financial feasibility and amounts, which he counted as “acquisition without extra charge.”) The seller is from a construction company, and the real estate agent, according to her statement, likes working with him because people want to imagine houses on the plots. So the project consultant, seller, and agent are three different people/companies. We have a contract with the project consultant for the overall project; we only pay extra if we change plots or something like that. The project consultant also handles financing. The seller had a house design and listed the land but said from the start that the land would be sold through the agent (though it was pretty clear he would handle the brokerage himself). With the seller, we signed this “reservation” aka “consulting agreement” (an A4 sheet) “because it wouldn’t otherwise work with the tax office regarding property transfer tax, etc.” I see it the same way as you, and others have told me this too: 1. The price is exorbitant, and 2. this setup could even be generally illegal. Long story short: in financing, I’ve conservatively planned for the €10,000, but would involve legal protection insurance if necessary.

11ant schrieb:

So the land has been purchased and you don’t have to get out of a construction contract since no such contract was concluded. But he would have brokered one, whose terms you find excessive. I can only repeat that it is generally too early to discuss construction contract contents before independent planning. If you agreed to his “consulting services,” you will have to at least discuss compensation with him. For me – and I think I can speak for my competitors – a €10,000 consulting fee would only appear on the invoice for a multi-family house with a gold-plated trash bin. I urgently need to raise my prices, thanks for the reminder!

The first sentence is correct. And of course, after signing the land purchase contract, he now wants us to sign the work contract for the company he works for. According to the contract, we wouldn’t have to pay anything anyway. So far, he has actually spent less time with us than 2-3 other sellers have 😀 And that’s all acquisition, nothing to do with independent consulting. Pure sales talk. After signing that one-page document, nothing much happened—no “consulting,” really. So as I said, I will play the legal protection card if needed. And so far, everyone says this is very unprofessional.

What I’ve also noticed by now: the construction company S&K charges prices like Viebrockhaus, but probably does not deliver Viebrockhaus-level service. I even requested a quote there, and what you get for sum X at S&K is really a joke compared to Viebrockhaus.

We will now compare the offers piece by piece in a table over the next few days, and maybe finally hire prefab house experts for a detailed comparison. The work contract will also be checked carefully somewhere before finalizing.

Good luck

Oh God. It’s hard to imagine more parties, contracts, and "papers."

It reads like "this is the most we could mishandle and get tied into."

nordanney schrieb:

Oh God. It’s hard to imagine even more parties, contracts, and paperwork.

Sounds like "there’s been even more things we couldn’t mess up or commit to."

Hmm, I definitely don’t see it that way. Having our advisor has already helped us a lot. And honestly, considering the time he spends with us, his fees are really low. He mainly advises us on financing, including disbursement schedules, and he was also persistent in making sure we planned very conservatively with the financing and included items like building inspectors and so on. He has a good sense of prices in the property market. In my opinion, he’s not a 100% construction expert, but at least he has a solid overview. Whether it’s an existing property or a new build, the contract would have been the same with him. The project is basically a “homeowner project.”

We can hardly avoid using a real estate agent for the land. Unfortunately, the agent got a bit involved with the seller on a business level. In my view, the price of the land was and still is worth the hassle.

IMM0rtalis schrieb:

We have a contract with the project consultant for the overall project; we only pay extra if we decide to change the plot or something similar. The project consultant also handles financing. The seller has a house design and has listed the plot but made it clear from the start that the plot is handled through the real estate agent (although it was quite clear that he was managing the brokerage). With the seller, we signed this "reservation" aka "consultation agreement" (a single A4 sheet), "because otherwise it wouldn't work due to the tax office regarding property transfer tax, etc."

Let me start from the end: at the tax office, it may cause delays but eventually become apparent before the statute of limitations that the name of the plot advertiser has already been scribbled several times into their file, and at the latest then the linked transaction will be uncovered. From my point of view, this person is at least walking a fine line between symbiont and parasite (from the real estate agent’s perspective probably the former, but from your side rather the latter). And this is where the house design you used for your inquiries came from, right? (Otherwise, I have still not been able to clarify this point).

IMM0rtalis schrieb:

In the coming days, we will also gradually compare the service offers one by one in a table, and maybe in the end even hire the prefab house experts for a detailed comparison. And have the construction contract examined in detail somewhere before finalizing.

Oh, how many times do I have to speak against the wall that these attempts to compare tables only lead you astray? Having a construction contract (e.g., from the "prefab house expert" or "Bauglück") reviewed is always recommended. However, the review is only an addition, not a replacement for a proactively created detailed scope of work.

IMM0rtalis schrieb:

And what I've also noticed by now: The construction company S&K quotes Viebrockhaus prices without probably providing Viebrockhaus-level service. I also requested an offer there, and it’s really a joke what I get from S&K for sum X compared to Viebrockhaus.

Viebrockhaus must have good marketing if so many homebuyers benchmark negotiation offers against them. I hear much more often about Tönjes & Meichsner that they are worth using as a benchmark (which won’t help you much due to regional reasons in or near Berlin. I don’t know how far KB Brandis extends at the moment). I haven’t looked into Sander & Knispel enough to answer the, in my opinion, rather philosophical question of “how much like Viebrockhaus are they?” However, I could only imagine them being more expensive in connection with what I’d call customized special requests far removed from a building scope description. Would they be the general contractor proposed by the broker?

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11ant schrieb:

I’ll start from the end: the tax office might notice—possibly with some delay but still before the statute of limitations expires—that the name of the land owner has already been scribbled several times in their file. At the latest then, the connected transaction will be uncovered. From my perspective, he is walking a fine line between symbiont and parasite (from the realtor’s side probably the former, but from your side more like the latter). And he is the source of the house design you used for inquiries? (Otherwise, I still haven’t been able to clarify this point).

Since it is a plot of land being subdivided, and others are also involved through this S&K setup, according to my advisor the risk of future problems is even higher.

11ant schrieb:

Would he be the general contractor proposed by the intermediary?

The “intermediary” is apparently their (only?) seller in Berlin. As far as I know, he is directly employed by S&K and has an office in Berlin.