Where is the limit of what is reasonable and understandable regarding material pricing? This actually affects many trades.
Example:
Cosmo heating expansion tank: online price including shipping, warranty, etc., €50, charged with tax €171.
Wilo heating pump: €160 compared to €352.
No, I do not expect the contractor to spend hours researching and comparing prices. They will buy from their wholesaler and, with a high degree of certainty due to discounts, get the components even cheaper. Of course, they may have personnel and travel costs to collect the parts.
Instead of €210, I now pay €523.
Also, odd items like small parts and installation aids are puzzling, since gaskets were of course included with the components and only a few centimeters of sealing tape were actually used.
As a customer, I have no chance in advance to find out the final prices at all.
Recently, there was a TV report about the installation of heat pumps in houses in France, which due to local pricing were barely more than half the cost. This with identical components.
It gives cause for serious reflection.
It probably leads to more and more private procurement and then installation done under the table.
Ultimately, tenants are also affected, because if the owner’s maintenance costs get out of control, the only option left is a rent increase.
Example:
Cosmo heating expansion tank: online price including shipping, warranty, etc., €50, charged with tax €171.
Wilo heating pump: €160 compared to €352.
No, I do not expect the contractor to spend hours researching and comparing prices. They will buy from their wholesaler and, with a high degree of certainty due to discounts, get the components even cheaper. Of course, they may have personnel and travel costs to collect the parts.
Instead of €210, I now pay €523.
Also, odd items like small parts and installation aids are puzzling, since gaskets were of course included with the components and only a few centimeters of sealing tape were actually used.
As a customer, I have no chance in advance to find out the final prices at all.
Recently, there was a TV report about the installation of heat pumps in houses in France, which due to local pricing were barely more than half the cost. This with identical components.
It gives cause for serious reflection.
It probably leads to more and more private procurement and then installation done under the table.
Ultimately, tenants are also affected, because if the owner’s maintenance costs get out of control, the only option left is a rent increase.
T
the-blue-cloud21 Oct 2024 16:27All opinions here are rather one-sided. If the wholesale price is higher than the standard price available to everyone online, I, as a business owner, would buy some parts elsewhere. If the delivery service is not overloaded, spare parts are usually on site within 1-2 working days. I also have a wholesale and retail dealer about 10 km (6 miles) away. As an end customer, I wouldn’t have paid more than €250 for those two components. Of course, the installer gets them at a better price. Charging nearly €30 VAT for small parts, when only 10 cm (4 inches) of sealing tape is needed, seems almost like fraud to me.
Undeclared workers will continue to increase significantly under such pricing and staff shortages.
Undeclared workers will continue to increase significantly under such pricing and staff shortages.
N
nordanney21 Oct 2024 16:47the-blue-cloud schrieb:
All very one-sided opinions.Well, there is only one direction to go anyway.Once again. What exactly is your personal problem?
schubert7921 Oct 2024 20:27the-blue-cloud schrieb:
These are all very one-sided opinions. If the wholesale price is higher than the standard price available to everyone on the internet, as a business owner I would buy some parts elsewhere. If the shipping service is not overloaded, spare parts are usually delivered within 1-2 business days. I also have a wholesale and retail supplier about 10 km (6 miles) away. As an end customer, I would not have paid even €250 for those two components. Of course, installers get them cheaper. Charging nearly €30 including VAT for small parts when only 10 cm (4 inches) of sealing tape is needed seems almost like fraud to me.
Illegal labor will continue to increase significantly with such pricing and staff shortages. If you’re so smart… why haven’t you done it then?
C
chand198621 Oct 2024 20:39The aspect that tradespeople include part of their profit margin in the materials was not addressed.
I discussed this with the tradespeople I know. The consensus was unanimous:
The labor costs per hour for helpers, skilled workers, and supervisors are comparable.
Anyone who offers higher labor costs but cheaper materials for the same total price is at a competitive disadvantage. Reason: Customers often do not consider this, are unaware, or simply don’t care.
I discussed this with the tradespeople I know. The consensus was unanimous:
The labor costs per hour for helpers, skilled workers, and supervisors are comparable.
Anyone who offers higher labor costs but cheaper materials for the same total price is at a competitive disadvantage. Reason: Customers often do not consider this, are unaware, or simply don’t care.
B
Buchsbaum06622 Oct 2024 07:58Of course, a craftsman’s profit consists of several components. The hourly billing rate is one part, and another is the material markup. Different trades apply varying percentages depending on the amount of material used.
As always, profit lies in purchasing. The craftsman not only has ordering costs but also many other expenses that need to be covered. This starts with stocking and storage, documentation, transportation costs, and so on.
Typically, a 100 percent markup is applied to materials billed to the customer. If the craftsman generates certain sales volumes with the wholesaler, they usually receive additional discounts credited at the end of the year on all purchases. That is exactly why craftsmen have no interest in buying materials online. They go to their wholesaler, receive their negotiated discount off the list price, and then get an extra 10 percent or more credited on their annual turnover.
Also, the wholesaler usually guarantees next-day express delivery for orders placed by 6:00 p.m., so the parts arrive at the site by 7:00 a.m. the following day. Amazon doesn’t provide that. For an electrician or HVAC (heating, ventilation, and air conditioning) company, working through the wholesaler is essential.
Anyone building privately and doing their own work must find materials at reasonable prices to save money. Unfortunately, not all wholesalers deliver to private customers, so flexibility is necessary.
Wholesalers like Klöpferholz, for example, do deliver to private customers, but not under the same terms as for professional tradespeople. This is understandable.
As always, profit lies in purchasing. The craftsman not only has ordering costs but also many other expenses that need to be covered. This starts with stocking and storage, documentation, transportation costs, and so on.
Typically, a 100 percent markup is applied to materials billed to the customer. If the craftsman generates certain sales volumes with the wholesaler, they usually receive additional discounts credited at the end of the year on all purchases. That is exactly why craftsmen have no interest in buying materials online. They go to their wholesaler, receive their negotiated discount off the list price, and then get an extra 10 percent or more credited on their annual turnover.
Also, the wholesaler usually guarantees next-day express delivery for orders placed by 6:00 p.m., so the parts arrive at the site by 7:00 a.m. the following day. Amazon doesn’t provide that. For an electrician or HVAC (heating, ventilation, and air conditioning) company, working through the wholesaler is essential.
Anyone building privately and doing their own work must find materials at reasonable prices to save money. Unfortunately, not all wholesalers deliver to private customers, so flexibility is necessary.
Wholesalers like Klöpferholz, for example, do deliver to private customers, but not under the same terms as for professional tradespeople. This is understandable.
Buchsbaum066 schrieb:
For an electrician or a heating and plumbing company, it is only possible to go through the wholesale trade. However, this does not apply to everyone, as I often see such tradespeople and their company vehicles at DIY stores; but it certainly applies to the majority.
For example, in my old house, the plumbing company always bought their PVC drain pipes and other parts on Ebay.
I believe that, in addition to the understandable reasons mentioned above, there is increasingly a degree of profit maximization by some tradespeople, which can sometimes border on being cheeky. This then sometimes has nothing to do with the reasonable principles of running a craft business.
This exists just as much as the opposite extreme among customers who are unwilling to grant tradespeople fair compensation. I do not want to disparage either side, nor glorify them.