Hello everyone,
Our house construction is expected to start at the end of the year. During the shell construction phase, we will discuss the electrical installation with the electrician. We are building with a general contractor. According to the scope of work description, a conventional electrical system will be installed. In addition, CAT 7 cables will be laid and "terminated on a patch panel"(?).
I was told that I should directly share my wishes with the electrician and educate myself about smart home systems... At the moment, I cannot communicate with the electrician yet because they have not been contracted.
Among other things, we have electric roller shutters that I would like to control. I only want to use wireless as a fallback option. I prefer a wired solution here. In addition to the roller shutters, I also want to integrate window sensors.
My question is: What requirements must be met to later control the roller shutters and evaluate the window sensors using logic control? Which cable needs to be installed?
I am quoting a post I just read:
Ultimately, my goal is to be able to integrate logic control in the future if I want to. Therefore, this “decentralized” approach sounds good to me.
Our house construction is expected to start at the end of the year. During the shell construction phase, we will discuss the electrical installation with the electrician. We are building with a general contractor. According to the scope of work description, a conventional electrical system will be installed. In addition, CAT 7 cables will be laid and "terminated on a patch panel"(?).
I was told that I should directly share my wishes with the electrician and educate myself about smart home systems... At the moment, I cannot communicate with the electrician yet because they have not been contracted.
Among other things, we have electric roller shutters that I would like to control. I only want to use wireless as a fallback option. I prefer a wired solution here. In addition to the roller shutters, I also want to integrate window sensors.
My question is: What requirements must be met to later control the roller shutters and evaluate the window sensors using logic control? Which cable needs to be installed?
I am quoting a post I just read:
Option 2: The “I’ll do the KNX wiring later” approach
An in-wall switching actuator from Jung. Controls one channel and fits behind the socket.
As an alternative, the actuators could be installed decentrally, i.e., distributed exactly where they are needed. If there is a KNX data cable in the socket you want to switch, you can connect to the bus there whenever you want. So the extreme version of this wiring would be: you let the electrician do their job and install a conventional electrical system. One supply line per room, with lighting and sockets connected from there. Special outlets (oven, dishwasher) get a separate line. However, there are two requirements:
- All flush-mounted boxes are 63 mm deep.
- A KNX data cable is run to every box. You can do this yourself.
Ultimately, my goal is to be able to integrate logic control in the future if I want to. Therefore, this “decentralized” approach sounds good to me.
S
Strahleman11 Sep 2019 23:08Just out of curiosity: Approximately how much would your suggested setup cost, @Mycraft? I’m referring to pure star wiring for roller shutters and bus cables in a few junction boxes. Plus, initially, conventional wiring. I know it’s hard to say for a hypothetical house. But is the additional cost for this type of wiring significantly higher than a conventional installation?
Strahleman schrieb:
Just out of curiosity: Approximately how much would your suggested option cost, That is not only difficult to estimate but impossible. Even for a standard installation of the same scope, if you ask three electricians, you will get three completely different quotes.
Strahleman schrieb:
So pure star wiring of roller shutters and bus cables in just a few outlets. Wrong approach. Either you do everything with star wiring and a bus line to every outlet, or you don’t do it at all.
Half measures are somehow also not practical.
Strahleman schrieb:
On top of conventional wiring first of all. You don’t need any “on top,” “first of all,” “maybe,” or “a little bit.” Everything in star wiring, bus to every outlet, and the connection point can be wherever you want—in the control panel, for example. Whether this is done conventionally or otherwise.
The additional cost will be at least 1000€ (about 1100 USD) just because of the larger panel and more cables/labor hours.
S
Strahleman12 Sep 2019 20:40Mycraft schrieb:
Wrong approach. Either you do everything with star topology and run a bus cable to every box, or you don't do it at all.But if I already know that in the future we won’t want or need to switch every outlet, why install a bus line everywhere? We don’t want to make the entire house smart, but for example only control the blinds with a wind sensor, either as a group or centrally by floor. Or are there better alternatives to KNX for such applications?
Strahleman schrieb:
But if I already know that we won’t want or need to control every single socket in the future, why install a data bus cable everywhere? We don’t want to make the entire house smart, just, for example, control the external blinds via wind sensors, as groups or centrally per floor. Or are there better alternatives to KNX for these uses? Even if hardly anyone wants to hear it here: wireless. For these small projects and minor functions, it’s more than enough. Add one or two actuators to dim a light by app and switch the floor lamp in the corner.
I retrofitted something like that for my parents. They really want a “smart home.” Whenever I hear that term... If you want to know which provider I used for that, feel free to send me a private message.
I bet 90% or even more of house installations with KNX aren’t really smart. The term is just used to make money. To become a “certified KNX partner,” you only need to take one training course. At least that was the case five years ago.
Some friends also filled their place with it. Star topology wiring? No chance. One cable per room for sockets, 3x1.5mm² (about 15 AWG). Congratulations. The only smart thing about it are the fancy black light switches with colorful dots. What they paid for it, I could have achieved with conventional methods for one-third of the money. And you could probably still afford a nice vacation.
The problem is that many have no clue about the topic. That’s not a fault by itself. What’s wrong, however, is that many people get ripped off because of it.
If you’re interested in what’s really possible and deserves the term “smart home,” I’d recommend following the house-building thread by @rick2018.
Someone there seems to really know their stuff. At least I came across a post about it somewhere in the many pages and have been eagerly waiting ever since for the electrical installation.
Strahleman schrieb:
But if I already know that in the future we won’t want or need to control every outlet, why install a bus line everywhere? We don’t want to make the entire house smart, but for example, only control the blinds via a wind sensor, grouped or centrally by floor. Or are there better alternatives to KNX for such applications? If you want a truly smart house and real KNX, not what danixf describes (meaning KNX without being smart), then you need the bus everywhere—you can’t just connect outlets to the bus line.
Otherwise, I tend to agree that you probably don’t need all that. Just have any standard controller installed for the blinds and that’s it.
If you want some lighting control as well, you can use something like Hue.
It might not be very “smart,” but it could be enough for your needs.