ᐅ House Uninhabitable Due to Neighbor's Fire – Who Is Responsible for the Costs?
Created on: 7 Mar 2021 20:02
A
andimann
Good evening.
Not our house, but my brother’s. Last night, there was a fire in the neighboring house to my brother’s. The fire department woke them up during the night, and they had to leave the house wearing only their nightwear, with two small children. Thankfully, there were no cases of smoke inhalation or other physical injuries. My brother told me that when they left, the house was already completely filled with smoke, and the smoke had penetrated through all the cracks in the walls and floors (an at least 350-year-old historic building).
First of all, big thanks to the Heidelberg fire department… if they had arrived just a few minutes later, it would have been really bad, as these houses don’t have a second escape route.
Today, they were allowed to briefly enter the house with accompaniment to retrieve essential items. The strong smell of smoke inside was immediately noticeable, and worse yet, small soot streaks were visible in many cracks and gaps in the walls and floors. In other words, the smoke really penetrated every corner. We’re not just talking about wiping down surfaces with a damp cloth and being done. Rather, this will likely require renovations lasting several weeks, possibly including replacing floors, and then probably several months in total. If historic preservation authorities get involved, it could take even longer.
Now the question is, which insurance covers what and to what extent? This seems to be much less clearly regulated than with traffic accidents, and my initial online research shows very different information. Are there fixed rules? Or does it really depend on whether the tenant in the neighboring house even has personal liability insurance?
Best regards,
Andreas
Not our house, but my brother’s. Last night, there was a fire in the neighboring house to my brother’s. The fire department woke them up during the night, and they had to leave the house wearing only their nightwear, with two small children. Thankfully, there were no cases of smoke inhalation or other physical injuries. My brother told me that when they left, the house was already completely filled with smoke, and the smoke had penetrated through all the cracks in the walls and floors (an at least 350-year-old historic building).
First of all, big thanks to the Heidelberg fire department… if they had arrived just a few minutes later, it would have been really bad, as these houses don’t have a second escape route.
Today, they were allowed to briefly enter the house with accompaniment to retrieve essential items. The strong smell of smoke inside was immediately noticeable, and worse yet, small soot streaks were visible in many cracks and gaps in the walls and floors. In other words, the smoke really penetrated every corner. We’re not just talking about wiping down surfaces with a damp cloth and being done. Rather, this will likely require renovations lasting several weeks, possibly including replacing floors, and then probably several months in total. If historic preservation authorities get involved, it could take even longer.
Now the question is, which insurance covers what and to what extent? This seems to be much less clearly regulated than with traffic accidents, and my initial online research shows very different information. Are there fixed rules? Or does it really depend on whether the tenant in the neighboring house even has personal liability insurance?
Best regards,
Andreas
Off-topic
Oh yes – I know that situation. Two years ago, our child was out in the neighborhood with the neighbor’s child (both 5 years old). Less than 10 minutes after I last checked on them, another neighbor came back with the kids. They had thrown stones at his car.
The duty of supervision was not breached (due to regular checks), so our insurance refused to pay. However, the insurance of the other family involved, as the primary insurer, advanced the payment and initially covered the full damage, and has probably ended up bearing the total cost.
Conclusion: about 10 small chips on all parts of the car (not sure if all were caused by the children) – around 4,000 to 5,000 euros worth of damage – the car is still used without repair – but the exterior grounds have now been nicely landscaped 😉
andimann schrieb:
That can definitely happen. Children under 7 years old have almost complete freedom, and at the same time, legally from around 4-5 years old, you are no longer required to supervise them constantly and can leave them out of sight for a few minutes. Then if they… scratch a neighbor’s car with a stone
Oh yes – I know that situation. Two years ago, our child was out in the neighborhood with the neighbor’s child (both 5 years old). Less than 10 minutes after I last checked on them, another neighbor came back with the kids. They had thrown stones at his car.
The duty of supervision was not breached (due to regular checks), so our insurance refused to pay. However, the insurance of the other family involved, as the primary insurer, advanced the payment and initially covered the full damage, and has probably ended up bearing the total cost.
Conclusion: about 10 small chips on all parts of the car (not sure if all were caused by the children) – around 4,000 to 5,000 euros worth of damage – the car is still used without repair – but the exterior grounds have now been nicely landscaped 😉
N
Nice-Nofret8 Mar 2021 12:431. Contact your own insurance company (building/elemental damage & household contents) to REPORT the damage. Get advice from them and see what they say.
2. Consult a lawyer specialized in insurance matters.
3. There are specialized companies that focus on cleaning and restoring such damage.
4. You have the obligation to contribute as much as possible to minimizing the damage.
2. Consult a lawyer specialized in insurance matters.
3. There are specialized companies that focus on cleaning and restoring such damage.
4. You have the obligation to contribute as much as possible to minimizing the damage.
H
hampshire8 Mar 2021 14:15You can consult a specialist lawyer, but it will cost money now. Involving one is only necessary if there is a risk of disadvantage. Not before that.
The brother and his family are responsible for the costs of temporary accommodation and their household belongings.
The brother’s landlord is responsible for the building damage.
The brother’s claim for accommodation due to uninhabitability is directed at the landlord or their building insurance.
The claim for compensation for the brother’s household property damage is against the party responsible or their liability insurance.
The brother should determine the amount of the claims (flat rates for accommodation, value of household property damage).
How the insurance companies settle between themselves remains unclear; the main concern is to avoid mutual blocking that would disadvantage the claimant.
This must be clearly separated in communication.
The brother and his family are responsible for the costs of temporary accommodation and their household belongings.
The brother’s landlord is responsible for the building damage.
The brother’s claim for accommodation due to uninhabitability is directed at the landlord or their building insurance.
The claim for compensation for the brother’s household property damage is against the party responsible or their liability insurance.
The brother should determine the amount of the claims (flat rates for accommodation, value of household property damage).
How the insurance companies settle between themselves remains unclear; the main concern is to avoid mutual blocking that would disadvantage the claimant.
This must be clearly separated in communication.
M
MM1506zzzz8 Mar 2021 23:05So far, much has been speculated, and some questions have not been answered correctly.
I will try to summarize:
Andiman’s brother is not the property owner but a tenant. Therefore, the damage to his rented building is not his responsibility but that of his landlord.
The landlord of Andiman’s brother should report the damage to his own fire insurance (or building insurance, which includes fire risk), as fire damage is covered even if the building itself did not catch fire but was damaged by a fire affecting the neighboring house.
The damage to Andiman’s brother’s household contents (personal belongings) should be reported to his own contents insurance and handled there (cleaning or replacement if cleaning is not possible). Contents insurance, like building insurance, covers fire damage even if the damage was caused by the fire in the neighboring house.
Alternatively, either the landlord or Andiman’s brother can file a civil claim for damages against the responsible party, for example under §823 of the building code, i.e., a liability claim. This may be pursued if no insurance coverage is available, which can happen. However, this will only work if someone acted negligently. If the neighboring house caught fire due to a technical failure, force majeure (lightning strike), or—as mentioned before—a person without legal capacity caused the fire, the claim will likely fail and be unenforceable. In that case, if no fire insurance exists (for the building or contents), the loss remains uncovered. It should also be noted that fire insurance covers replacement at new value; a valid and enforceable liability claim, on the other hand, generally provides compensation for current value.
Since Andiman’s brother cannot currently live in the rented house, he is effectively homeless. As the rental property is not in a habitable condition, he is likely entitled to reduce the rent; consulting legal advice (such as a tenants’ association) may be useful to understand the applicable case law and what rent reduction is appropriate.
Incidentally, many contents insurance policies now include coverage for accommodation costs, reimbursing hotel stays in such situations. Andiman’s brother should review his policy conditions.
The situation is quite clear and straightforward…
I will try to summarize:
Andiman’s brother is not the property owner but a tenant. Therefore, the damage to his rented building is not his responsibility but that of his landlord.
The landlord of Andiman’s brother should report the damage to his own fire insurance (or building insurance, which includes fire risk), as fire damage is covered even if the building itself did not catch fire but was damaged by a fire affecting the neighboring house.
The damage to Andiman’s brother’s household contents (personal belongings) should be reported to his own contents insurance and handled there (cleaning or replacement if cleaning is not possible). Contents insurance, like building insurance, covers fire damage even if the damage was caused by the fire in the neighboring house.
Alternatively, either the landlord or Andiman’s brother can file a civil claim for damages against the responsible party, for example under §823 of the building code, i.e., a liability claim. This may be pursued if no insurance coverage is available, which can happen. However, this will only work if someone acted negligently. If the neighboring house caught fire due to a technical failure, force majeure (lightning strike), or—as mentioned before—a person without legal capacity caused the fire, the claim will likely fail and be unenforceable. In that case, if no fire insurance exists (for the building or contents), the loss remains uncovered. It should also be noted that fire insurance covers replacement at new value; a valid and enforceable liability claim, on the other hand, generally provides compensation for current value.
Since Andiman’s brother cannot currently live in the rented house, he is effectively homeless. As the rental property is not in a habitable condition, he is likely entitled to reduce the rent; consulting legal advice (such as a tenants’ association) may be useful to understand the applicable case law and what rent reduction is appropriate.
Incidentally, many contents insurance policies now include coverage for accommodation costs, reimbursing hotel stays in such situations. Andiman’s brother should review his policy conditions.
The situation is quite clear and straightforward…
Regarding supervision responsibilities: Just the day before yesterday, our 2-year-old managed to slip away. My husband opened the patio door to let the cats outside, and she was so quick and clever that he didn’t notice her escaping—he only saw her diapered bottom sprinting around the corner. He immediately followed, but since he couldn’t hear where she was, he didn’t know which direction she went. He went back inside right away and called me. I went outside and called the child back in a firm voice. She happily bounced back from the neighbor’s backyard, having been chasing the cats. It all took less than a minute. These little rascals can cause trouble so fast—you can’t watch them closely enough.
Hi everyone,
First of all, thanks for the various tips and suggestions. A quick update: my brother and his family have temporarily moved into an Airbnb apartment. This won’t be permanent, as it’s definitely too small and without a washing machine, which is quite challenging with two small children… ;-) But it was just around the corner and quickly available.
The insurance companies have already started to cause trouble, so this will probably turn into a lot of work for the lawyers.
It really makes you lose faith in justice and fairness; if someone crashes into your car, everything is perfectly arranged. You drop off the car for repairs, get a rental car, and have exactly zero hassle or extra costs.
Here it’s basically the same situation: something bad happened in the neighboring house, and my brother’s house is now uninhabitable (like a car being damaged). But you don’t easily get an equivalent apartment, and they have a lot of work and stress ahead of them. Depending on how difficult the insurance companies are, they’ll probably end up covering many of the costs themselves. Child 1 is also still very traumatized, wetting the bed every night and completely out of sorts…
On top of that, they now have to find a new apartment; the house will remain uninhabitable for a long time. Although the fire was in the neighboring house, my brother’s house is so badly contaminated by smoke and firefighting water that a complete refurbishment will probably be necessary.
What a nightmare…
Best regards,
Andreas
First of all, thanks for the various tips and suggestions. A quick update: my brother and his family have temporarily moved into an Airbnb apartment. This won’t be permanent, as it’s definitely too small and without a washing machine, which is quite challenging with two small children… ;-) But it was just around the corner and quickly available.
The insurance companies have already started to cause trouble, so this will probably turn into a lot of work for the lawyers.
It really makes you lose faith in justice and fairness; if someone crashes into your car, everything is perfectly arranged. You drop off the car for repairs, get a rental car, and have exactly zero hassle or extra costs.
Here it’s basically the same situation: something bad happened in the neighboring house, and my brother’s house is now uninhabitable (like a car being damaged). But you don’t easily get an equivalent apartment, and they have a lot of work and stress ahead of them. Depending on how difficult the insurance companies are, they’ll probably end up covering many of the costs themselves. Child 1 is also still very traumatized, wetting the bed every night and completely out of sorts…
On top of that, they now have to find a new apartment; the house will remain uninhabitable for a long time. Although the fire was in the neighboring house, my brother’s house is so badly contaminated by smoke and firefighting water that a complete refurbishment will probably be necessary.
What a nightmare…
Best regards,
Andreas