ᐅ Aluminum windows both on the exterior and interior – fully aluminum frames
Created on: 29 Jul 2022 22:42
R
Rene_062
Hello,
my name is Rene, and I actually have several questions. However, I will limit myself to questions about windows in this subforum for now.
We installed aluminum windows in our house, which was built in 2018. These windows have aluminum frames both inside and outside and triple glazing.
The windows are very nice. However, what we find uncomfortable is that the window frames feel quite cold during transitional seasons and winter.
There are significant temperature differences between the window frames and the window reveals, as well as compared to the window panes (measured and felt in the center).
The frames always feel cold, and during these times of year, we tend to avoid being close to them.
Is this normal?
A friend of mine installed “relatively inexpensive” plastic (uPVC) windows, and we feel much more comfortable near those windows.
My windows were installed using an expanding sealing tape, while Horst’s windows were foam insulated (using spray foam).
Could you maybe share from your experience whether this makes a difference?
I understand it might be difficult to assess because of the different materials, but maybe a window installer, carpenter, or energy expert among you can help.
Thank you very much for your opinions.
Best regards, Rene
my name is Rene, and I actually have several questions. However, I will limit myself to questions about windows in this subforum for now.
We installed aluminum windows in our house, which was built in 2018. These windows have aluminum frames both inside and outside and triple glazing.
The windows are very nice. However, what we find uncomfortable is that the window frames feel quite cold during transitional seasons and winter.
There are significant temperature differences between the window frames and the window reveals, as well as compared to the window panes (measured and felt in the center).
The frames always feel cold, and during these times of year, we tend to avoid being close to them.
Is this normal?
A friend of mine installed “relatively inexpensive” plastic (uPVC) windows, and we feel much more comfortable near those windows.
My windows were installed using an expanding sealing tape, while Horst’s windows were foam insulated (using spray foam).
Could you maybe share from your experience whether this makes a difference?
I understand it might be difficult to assess because of the different materials, but maybe a window installer, carpenter, or energy expert among you can help.
Thank you very much for your opinions.
Best regards, Rene
In the past, aluminum window frames were made from a single piece. Since aluminum is a material with higher thermal conductivity, older aluminum windows created a thermal bridge, which caused significant heat loss.
Today, aluminum window frames are usually constructed from an outer and an inner shell to improve the frame’s thermal insulation (see Uf-value of window frames). These thermally broken aluminum window profiles offer insulating properties that can be compared to those of wood or plastic.
The thermal insulation effect results from the special double-shell design of aluminum window profiles, which are also equipped with multiple chambers that are filled with air or, even better, insulation material.
It is important that the profiles are designed so that thermal breaks (called insulation cores) exist between the outer shell and the room-facing shell, preventing unwanted thermal bridges through which heat could be lost uncontrollably. Aluminum profiles made this way achieve good to very good insulating performance.
And: did you not consult about the advantages and disadvantages before making such an expensive decision (aluminum windows)?
Still, aluminum windows often "feel" colder because they transfer heat away from the body more quickly (transferred to the window). This "feeling" does not require direct contact with the surface. Perhaps raising the overall room temperature—thereby increasing the temperature of the window components—could help? Have you ever measured the surface temperature? What is it?
And yes, expanding foam tape (Kompriband) is generally better (in my opinion), but of course, it always depends on the installer whether it is done well.
Today, aluminum window frames are usually constructed from an outer and an inner shell to improve the frame’s thermal insulation (see Uf-value of window frames). These thermally broken aluminum window profiles offer insulating properties that can be compared to those of wood or plastic.
The thermal insulation effect results from the special double-shell design of aluminum window profiles, which are also equipped with multiple chambers that are filled with air or, even better, insulation material.
It is important that the profiles are designed so that thermal breaks (called insulation cores) exist between the outer shell and the room-facing shell, preventing unwanted thermal bridges through which heat could be lost uncontrollably. Aluminum profiles made this way achieve good to very good insulating performance.
And: did you not consult about the advantages and disadvantages before making such an expensive decision (aluminum windows)?
Still, aluminum windows often "feel" colder because they transfer heat away from the body more quickly (transferred to the window). This "feeling" does not require direct contact with the surface. Perhaps raising the overall room temperature—thereby increasing the temperature of the window components—could help? Have you ever measured the surface temperature? What is it?
And yes, expanding foam tape (Kompriband) is generally better (in my opinion), but of course, it always depends on the installer whether it is done well.
i_b_n_a_n schrieb:
"Aluminum window frames were formerly made from a single piece. Since aluminum is a material with higher thermal conductivity, earlier aluminum windows created thermal bridges that caused significant heat loss.
Nowadays, aluminum window frames are usually constructed from an outer and an inner shell to improve the frame’s thermal insulation (see Uf-value of window frames). Such thermally broken aluminum window profiles provide insulating properties that can be compared to those of wood or uPVC.
The insulating effect results from the special dual-shell design of aluminum window profiles, which are also equipped with multiple chambers that are filled with air or, preferably, insulation material.
Care is taken to ensure that the profiles are designed so that thermal barriers (so-called insulating cores) exist between the outer and inner shells, preventing unwanted thermal bridging that would lead to uncontrolled heat loss. Profiles designed in this way achieve good to very good insulation properties."
Also: Did you not seek advice on the pros and cons before making such an expensive decision (aluminum windows)?
Still, aluminum windows “feel” colder because they transfer heat away from the body more quickly (transferred to the window). This sensation does not require direct contact with the surface. Perhaps increasing the general room temperature—and thus the temperature of the window components—could help? Have you ever measured the surface temperature? What is it?
And yes, compressible foam tape is actually better (in my opinion), but naturally, it always depends on the installer whether it is done well.Everything stated here is correct! Additionally: If modern aluminum window frames are incorrectly mounted (installed), it can cause a "bridging of the thermal break within the frame" when installed in the insulation layer, see page 222, figure 7.9 in the "Guide for Planning and Execution of Window Installation..." edition March 2020.
How is the wall construction of the exterior walls ensured so that there is no significant thermal bridge in the area of the window reveal?
I would actually recommend checking this again. Are there any photos from before/after the window installation?
What is the temperature of the frame, for example, below the lintel compared to the sides?
I would actually recommend checking this again. Are there any photos from before/after the window installation?
What is the temperature of the frame, for example, below the lintel compared to the sides?
Hello, thank you again for the responses.
Measuring temperatures now is pointless.
In winter, the window frames (the glass feels much warmer) are cold.
When I increase the temperature of the underfloor heating, I rather notice that cold drafts occur near the window.
In the bathroom next to the toilet, it feels strange when you sense a draft. However, it is not a draft but clearly the cold frames.
In my opinion, the frame temperatures have always been about 6 - 7°C (11 - 13°F) colder than the room temperature (at outdoor temperatures around 0°C (32°F) and below). The dew point has not been reached yet, and there is no dampness or moisture here.
This is based on my previous measurements, and I am now writing from memory.
The wall construction is as follows (from inside to outside):
1 cm (0.4 inches) gypsum board
2.4 cm (1 inch) rough boarding
24 cm (9.5 inches) timber frame filled with cellulose insulation
1.6 cm (0.6 inches) exterior sheathing board
4 cm (1.6 inches) air cavity
11.5 cm (4.5 inches) masonry
The walls are warm. In the window reveals, it gets colder toward the frames.
Measuring temperatures now is pointless.
In winter, the window frames (the glass feels much warmer) are cold.
When I increase the temperature of the underfloor heating, I rather notice that cold drafts occur near the window.
In the bathroom next to the toilet, it feels strange when you sense a draft. However, it is not a draft but clearly the cold frames.
In my opinion, the frame temperatures have always been about 6 - 7°C (11 - 13°F) colder than the room temperature (at outdoor temperatures around 0°C (32°F) and below). The dew point has not been reached yet, and there is no dampness or moisture here.
This is based on my previous measurements, and I am now writing from memory.
The wall construction is as follows (from inside to outside):
1 cm (0.4 inches) gypsum board
2.4 cm (1 inch) rough boarding
24 cm (9.5 inches) timber frame filled with cellulose insulation
1.6 cm (0.6 inches) exterior sheathing board
4 cm (1.6 inches) air cavity
11.5 cm (4.5 inches) masonry
The walls are warm. In the window reveals, it gets colder toward the frames.
Data:
Crystal ball suggests:
Crystal ball says:
- House built in 2018
- Aluminum windows with triple glazing
- Underfloor heating
- Wall construction
- No problems in summer
Crystal ball suggests:
- Window color anthracite gray
- External sunshade present
- Windows installed in the outer third of the wall within the insulation layer, in front of the "masonry"
- Deep window reveals on the interior side without additional heating loops/heating circuits in front of the windows
- Modern aluminum windows with average Uf values common today
Crystal ball says:
- Dark-colored aluminum window frames can become extremely hot in summer without sun protection, especially on the east and west sides of the building; > 80°C (176°F) is possible
- Aluminum window frames with sun protection on glass and frame also warm up to over 40°C (104°F) depending on outside temperature
- If the large summer temperature differences do not transfer to the inner thermally separated window shell, the installation and the window are fault-free — no unusual thermal bridges are present
- In winter/… in highly insulated buildings with low-temperature underfloor heating and deep window reveals, a poorer Uf value of the window frame compared to the triple glazing and wall insulation has a corresponding impact on the frame, especially with underfloor heating
Similar topics