Osram is discontinuing the cloud server operation for Lightify as of August 31, 2021.
In this particular case, it’s only somewhat problematic because the devices can mostly be connected to Hue gateways. However, this is a clear example for anyone who equips their home or new build (considering the lifespan of a house!) with such gimmicks simply because they look nice in advertisements and appear cheaper. Just imagine what would happen if, for example, Loxone ever decided to do something similar. But hey, we did warn you.
Fire away!
In this particular case, it’s only somewhat problematic because the devices can mostly be connected to Hue gateways. However, this is a clear example for anyone who equips their home or new build (considering the lifespan of a house!) with such gimmicks simply because they look nice in advertisements and appear cheaper. Just imagine what would happen if, for example, Loxone ever decided to do something similar. But hey, we did warn you.
Fire away!
From my perspective, the crucial point is what "proprietary" actually means in this specific case: whether it refers to a network topology or a circuit diagram, a protocol, or the concept of shared or separate transport of power, signaling, and payload; or whether a system that essentially operates with simple water heating is artificially made proprietary by running a separate process at the operating system level and/or relying heavily on components needing to “phone home” like E.T., meaning their intelligence is allocated on a server controlled by the component manufacturer.
In my opinion, a good system uses readily available components whose function is based on the basic operations of switching and pulse control, and features a control unit that can be freely located either in the cloud or on site. From my point of view, this means a star wiring topology, a programmable logic controller (PLC) in the main electrical distribution board, and overall components that can work with the standard resources of three- or five-core cables. I do not want to use a SCART connector where a simple lamp socket would suffice.
Ceterum censeo: the three angels for Charlie should be named Sabrina, Jill, and Kelly — not Siri, Alexa, and Cortana 🙂
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
In my opinion, a good system uses readily available components whose function is based on the basic operations of switching and pulse control, and features a control unit that can be freely located either in the cloud or on site. From my point of view, this means a star wiring topology, a programmable logic controller (PLC) in the main electrical distribution board, and overall components that can work with the standard resources of three- or five-core cables. I do not want to use a SCART connector where a simple lamp socket would suffice.
Ceterum censeo: the three angels for Charlie should be named Sabrina, Jill, and Kelly — not Siri, Alexa, and Cortana 🙂
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
apokolok schrieb:
Putting aside the basic discussion, it is still more economical to replace a new proprietary system every 5 years than to install KNX once for 25 years. KNX is simply disproportionately expensive.That is a very broad statement. At least for standard KNX installations, that certainly does not apply.
untergasse4311 Aug 2021 14:02KNX is actually more cost-effective in a straightforward and honest comparison than systems like HomeMatic or Loxone. It only becomes disproportionately expensive if you end up with incompetent installers. The latter systems (and others as well) are typically programmed by the users themselves, so this approach should also be considered with KNX, and you should not, for example, justify expensive professional configuration costs for the latter systems.
apokolok schrieb:
Renewing a new proprietary system every 5 years instead of installing KNX once for 25 years. No, this approach is overall much more expensive. Because every manufacturer-specific system you install anew inevitably brings system and additional costs beyond programming and the price of the components.
These costs would have to be incurred again every 5 years.
apokolok schrieb:
KNX is simply disproportionately expensive. But only if you compare apples and oranges. In an honest direct comparison, KNX is often even cheaper than many proprietary systems, if not most, when you really compare everything thoroughly. Because development does not stop with KNX either and prices are constantly falling. Another advantage is that you can still use the same wiring after 25 years, and just replacing and configuring the end devices is sufficient. Many system devices can continue to be used and basically only need to be purchased once (power supplies, interfaces, gateways, couplers, etc.).
Well, no one has really been able to explain to me what the real, practical added value of KNX or other bus systems is compared to the simplest, cheapest retrofit solutions like Shelly and similar products. Of course, I understand the benefits in terms of fail-safety, reliability, and durability.
But with these “DIY solutions,” I can technically implement almost all commonly used scenarios at a tiny fraction of the cost.
I’m talking about $10,000–15,000 for KNX versus just a few hundred dollars for the DIY setup.
What do you do with KNX that justifies these extra costs? Presence detection, lighting, shading, heating—I can manage all of that with DIY solutions as well.
But with these “DIY solutions,” I can technically implement almost all commonly used scenarios at a tiny fraction of the cost.
I’m talking about $10,000–15,000 for KNX versus just a few hundred dollars for the DIY setup.
What do you do with KNX that justifies these extra costs? Presence detection, lighting, shading, heating—I can manage all of that with DIY solutions as well.
Some people tinker, while others get it right from the start. 😉 What I especially like about KNX is the wide variety of options, because with just one manufacturer, there are always devices I don’t like or that are less suitable in comparison. This way, you can pick exactly what is best for each specific task. For our basic setup alone, we are already using eight different manufacturers. If I had to get everything from one, I would have to make compromises and also pay more.