ᐅ Neighbor’s ventilation system set too high and therefore too noisy?
Created on: 19 Jul 2021 16:43
T
Toja007
Hello dear forum members,
I am reaching out to you with a problem:
Our neighbors have a controlled central ventilation system (probably a Stiebel Eltron 280), which we find "too loud" and, in my opinion, incorrectly adjusted.
It produces about 60 dB(A) sound pressure level at the exhaust outlet, which faces our terrace. On our terrace, about 8m (26 feet) away, it sounds like a constant airplane flying overhead. The air velocity in the 160mm (6.3 inch) duct is 2.6–2.8 m/s (meters per second), which I calculate to be about 200 m³/h (cubic meters per hour) of air volume (see side question below regarding supply air vs. exhaust air).
This occurs between 7:30 a.m. and 9 p.m., although hardly anyone is home on weekdays during this time (also on weekends, even with open windows). In the evenings, they reduce the system. This is all happening now in summer (May to September); in autumn/winter, they generally turn the system down!?
Our neighbors refer us to the plumbing company that installed and maintains the system; according to them, the system is correctly set.
House data: approx. 450 m³ (cubic meters),
5 occupants
==> Therefore, I come to a required air exchange rate of about 130–150 m³ per hour (factor 0.3 or 25–30 m³ per person for “normal air”).
Side question: On the weekend, they were airing out for two whole days during the daytime at the highest supply air setting, with an air velocity of 3.6 m/s (meters per second) = 260 m³/h, but on the exhaust side, it was 4.5 m/s = 325 m³/h, with a sound pressure level of 70 dB(A). That is 25% higher. It seems to me that the exhaust air from the rooms is set too high? I once read about a maximum deviation of +5–10%.
What do the experts in this forum think? I have already tried talking to the neighbor and might have an independent plumbing company inspect it. So far, no success...
Kind regards, Toja
I am reaching out to you with a problem:
Our neighbors have a controlled central ventilation system (probably a Stiebel Eltron 280), which we find "too loud" and, in my opinion, incorrectly adjusted.
It produces about 60 dB(A) sound pressure level at the exhaust outlet, which faces our terrace. On our terrace, about 8m (26 feet) away, it sounds like a constant airplane flying overhead. The air velocity in the 160mm (6.3 inch) duct is 2.6–2.8 m/s (meters per second), which I calculate to be about 200 m³/h (cubic meters per hour) of air volume (see side question below regarding supply air vs. exhaust air).
This occurs between 7:30 a.m. and 9 p.m., although hardly anyone is home on weekdays during this time (also on weekends, even with open windows). In the evenings, they reduce the system. This is all happening now in summer (May to September); in autumn/winter, they generally turn the system down!?
Our neighbors refer us to the plumbing company that installed and maintains the system; according to them, the system is correctly set.
House data: approx. 450 m³ (cubic meters),
5 occupants
==> Therefore, I come to a required air exchange rate of about 130–150 m³ per hour (factor 0.3 or 25–30 m³ per person for “normal air”).
Side question: On the weekend, they were airing out for two whole days during the daytime at the highest supply air setting, with an air velocity of 3.6 m/s (meters per second) = 260 m³/h, but on the exhaust side, it was 4.5 m/s = 325 m³/h, with a sound pressure level of 70 dB(A). That is 25% higher. It seems to me that the exhaust air from the rooms is set too high? I once read about a maximum deviation of +5–10%.
What do the experts in this forum think? I have already tried talking to the neighbor and might have an independent plumbing company inspect it. So far, no success...
Kind regards, Toja
So, I think it’s important to objectively re-examine the problem in order to suggest individually suitable solutions.
Noise: Did you measure it using an app on your phone? Was the measurement taken directly at the air outlet or on your terrace? Where exactly did you record the 60dB?
Wind speed: So you bought an anemometer? And held it in or near the exhaust vent? Of course, from the public street, since you’re not entering private property. And you did this while your neighbor was at home?
Based on these measurements, you then calculated the air volume flow and concluded that the 60dB exceeds the limit of 50dB in a typical residential area? So you recorded 60dB at 8m (26 feet) distance on your terrace caused by the exhaust vent of your neighbor’s mechanical ventilation system?
Do you really think all this is that empirical and reliable?
Sorry, but I can’t help but shake my head slightly. 😎 I understand that noise can be very disturbing and that subjective perception varies greatly. Personally, I find your entire approach to this topic somewhat unusual. 😀
Noise: Did you measure it using an app on your phone? Was the measurement taken directly at the air outlet or on your terrace? Where exactly did you record the 60dB?
Wind speed: So you bought an anemometer? And held it in or near the exhaust vent? Of course, from the public street, since you’re not entering private property. And you did this while your neighbor was at home?
Based on these measurements, you then calculated the air volume flow and concluded that the 60dB exceeds the limit of 50dB in a typical residential area? So you recorded 60dB at 8m (26 feet) distance on your terrace caused by the exhaust vent of your neighbor’s mechanical ventilation system?
Do you really think all this is that empirical and reliable?
Sorry, but I can’t help but shake my head slightly. 😎 I understand that noise can be very disturbing and that subjective perception varies greatly. Personally, I find your entire approach to this topic somewhat unusual. 😀
Hello face26,
1. First of all, I have, of course, made several attempts to talk with the neighbor. I asked that we sit down together. Unfortunately, this has not happened. They would rather turn off the system for 14 days, only to turn it back on again, in my opinion, too loudly. I want their system to run; I do not want any conflict with my neighbors; I am looking for compromises. I would even pay up to a certain amount if it concerns the muffler.
2. I measured the sound pressure level of 60 dB(A) directly at the exhaust outlet; yes, it was an "amateur" measurement with a mobile phone; also, the wind speed was measured the same way. And no, I do have a wind measuring device at home; there are hobbies that require such equipment.
3. The 50 dB(A) limit in pure residential areas is, after all, a guideline (Federal Immission Control Act “Noise” section 6.1 e), applicable for building permit / planning permission.
4. I want to solve problems, not justify my approach. If you don’t know how the conversations or attempts at dialogue have been on-site, you should not shake your head prematurely. 😉
5. And yes, it is empirical, based on experience and observations.
1. First of all, I have, of course, made several attempts to talk with the neighbor. I asked that we sit down together. Unfortunately, this has not happened. They would rather turn off the system for 14 days, only to turn it back on again, in my opinion, too loudly. I want their system to run; I do not want any conflict with my neighbors; I am looking for compromises. I would even pay up to a certain amount if it concerns the muffler.
2. I measured the sound pressure level of 60 dB(A) directly at the exhaust outlet; yes, it was an "amateur" measurement with a mobile phone; also, the wind speed was measured the same way. And no, I do have a wind measuring device at home; there are hobbies that require such equipment.
3. The 50 dB(A) limit in pure residential areas is, after all, a guideline (Federal Immission Control Act “Noise” section 6.1 e), applicable for building permit / planning permission.
4. I want to solve problems, not justify my approach. If you don’t know how the conversations or attempts at dialogue have been on-site, you should not shake your head prematurely. 😉
5. And yes, it is empirical, based on experience and observations.
H
hampshire20 Jul 2021 09:08face26 schrieb:
I think the issue should be approached objectively again in order to propose individually suitable solutions. I disagree. First, determine the noise level with a proper measurement, then request that it be reduced to at or below the specified limit. Nothing more. The responsibility for the solution lies with your neighbor if they do not comply with the requirements. If you suggest solutions, the discussion will quickly shift to your proposals instead of addressing the actual problem. You will face objections about cost, why it’s not feasible, why you are interfering with your neighbor’s technical setup, and the emotional situation can become confusing and escalate over a trivial matter. Your well-intentioned input could be used against you.
Therefore: "Dear neighbor, your system is too loud (measurement) and is causing us significant disturbance. Please ensure that the noise level is kept at or below xxdB."
I would refrain from setting a deadline in the first communication (initially oral, with a follow-up letter announced at the same time).
Hello hampshire and face26, first of all, thanks again for your feedback (and to the others as well).
Let's see how the neighbor reacts to the politely written letter I sent yesterday. The system has been off again since this morning 🙄 So it doesn't seem to be completely indifferent to them.
"Same procedure as last month, Miss Sophie? Same procedure as every month, James." 😀
My suggestion would be to have a measurement or inspection of the system. But I would like to discuss this first and try to reach an initial compromise. Good neighbor relations are important to me (even if one might think I’m stalking the controlled residential ventilation system of my neighbors).
Let's see how the neighbor reacts to the politely written letter I sent yesterday. The system has been off again since this morning 🙄 So it doesn't seem to be completely indifferent to them.
"Same procedure as last month, Miss Sophie? Same procedure as every month, James." 😀
My suggestion would be to have a measurement or inspection of the system. But I would like to discuss this first and try to reach an initial compromise. Good neighbor relations are important to me (even if one might think I’m stalking the controlled residential ventilation system of my neighbors).
Well, my approach wasn’t entirely serious.
If you don’t provide the background information, we can only work with what we have.
I’ve only been somewhat involved with the topic of noise because the measurement values in our residential area might potentially be exceeded for various reasons according to a noise assessment report. Therefore, noise protection measures, etc. My understanding is that the sound level should not be measured at the source but at the “relevant” locations. In your case, that would be your terrace. What does your sound level meter app show there?
In that respect, I partly agree with @hampshire. But without proper measurements, it’s pointless. Also, please read up again on noise in residential areas. Heat pumps can produce more than 50 dB right at the unit. But at a few meters distance, not anymore. According to your theory, hardly any heat pump should be installed in a typical residential area.
Maybe a tip for you: try a search engine on the topic of noise and neighbor distance for heat pumps.
And please keep us updated.
To maybe change perspective a bit: If I were the operator of a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery that my specialist company confirmed as functioning properly, I don’t know why I would commission a noise measurement (for a noise level that I personally do not find disturbing). And if the neighbor carries out measurements on my ventilation system when I’m not there… I don’t know.
If you don’t provide the background information, we can only work with what we have.
I’ve only been somewhat involved with the topic of noise because the measurement values in our residential area might potentially be exceeded for various reasons according to a noise assessment report. Therefore, noise protection measures, etc. My understanding is that the sound level should not be measured at the source but at the “relevant” locations. In your case, that would be your terrace. What does your sound level meter app show there?
In that respect, I partly agree with @hampshire. But without proper measurements, it’s pointless. Also, please read up again on noise in residential areas. Heat pumps can produce more than 50 dB right at the unit. But at a few meters distance, not anymore. According to your theory, hardly any heat pump should be installed in a typical residential area.
Maybe a tip for you: try a search engine on the topic of noise and neighbor distance for heat pumps.
And please keep us updated.
To maybe change perspective a bit: If I were the operator of a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery that my specialist company confirmed as functioning properly, I don’t know why I would commission a noise measurement (for a noise level that I personally do not find disturbing). And if the neighbor carries out measurements on my ventilation system when I’m not there… I don’t know.
Hello face26,
The specialized contractor threw away the silencers in the supply air ducts of our Lunos decentralized ventilation system because they thought they were just packaging 🙄
But yes, I agree with you, on our terrace the noise level is naturally lower, around 35-40 dB(A). However, this deep humming noise is really annoying 🙁 I will do some research and also have a contact for an acoustics expert from a colleague. I will give them a call.
The specialized contractor threw away the silencers in the supply air ducts of our Lunos decentralized ventilation system because they thought they were just packaging 🙄
But yes, I agree with you, on our terrace the noise level is naturally lower, around 35-40 dB(A). However, this deep humming noise is really annoying 🙁 I will do some research and also have a contact for an acoustics expert from a colleague. I will give them a call.
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