Hello everyone,
We are currently buying a house, and something very strange happened that I’m not sure how to handle.
A bit of background: after a long search and countless viewings, we finally managed to get a house.
The viewing had to be arranged at very short notice, and there was no time for my partner to join. (Luckily, I recorded everything on video.)
My partner never saw the house from the inside but was still convinced by the videos and the location, so we signed the purchase contract.
Now to the situation:
We met the real estate agent (almost) for the first time when signing the purchase contract; before that, there were only a few phone calls where he requested the financing confirmation and informed us about the notary appointment.
All other contact and the viewing were conducted with the neighbor, who is a friend of the owner.
Shortly before the notary appointment, the agent wanted to meet again. He then offered me to pay the €20,000 (about $21,500) commission in cash right after the notary appointment to avoid taxes, which could save us almost €3,000 (about $3,200).
(I have to admit, at the time I thought he meant we could save the 3% VAT, so I said it probably shouldn’t be that much.)
I declined the offer, which obviously didn’t please him...
Later, after talking to someone else, I realized that he was actually suggesting an undeclared cash payment, completely without paying 16% or 19% VAT.
A quick calculation confirmed that we would have paid about €17,000 (about $18,300) in total.
Still, I was glad to refuse because we included the commission in our financing and would have had no proof of payment.
Now here’s the strange part:
We have just received an invoice for the full €20,000 (about $21,500), which states that no VAT is due due to the small business regulation (Kleinunternehmerregelung).
This confuses me a lot. If he doesn’t have to charge VAT, how could he make the previous offer?
The company looks well-established, offers many services, and according to the website has been around for 20 years. (In theory, it could still be possible that he qualifies as a small business under VAT rules.)
I don’t understand any of this.
At the same time, he seems to be a very close friend of the owner, and we don’t want to upset him since we haven’t taken possession of the house yet.
The payment deadline on the invoice is the day after tomorrow.
I would appreciate any advice.
Best regards
We are currently buying a house, and something very strange happened that I’m not sure how to handle.
A bit of background: after a long search and countless viewings, we finally managed to get a house.
The viewing had to be arranged at very short notice, and there was no time for my partner to join. (Luckily, I recorded everything on video.)
My partner never saw the house from the inside but was still convinced by the videos and the location, so we signed the purchase contract.
Now to the situation:
We met the real estate agent (almost) for the first time when signing the purchase contract; before that, there were only a few phone calls where he requested the financing confirmation and informed us about the notary appointment.
All other contact and the viewing were conducted with the neighbor, who is a friend of the owner.
Shortly before the notary appointment, the agent wanted to meet again. He then offered me to pay the €20,000 (about $21,500) commission in cash right after the notary appointment to avoid taxes, which could save us almost €3,000 (about $3,200).
(I have to admit, at the time I thought he meant we could save the 3% VAT, so I said it probably shouldn’t be that much.)
I declined the offer, which obviously didn’t please him...
Later, after talking to someone else, I realized that he was actually suggesting an undeclared cash payment, completely without paying 16% or 19% VAT.
A quick calculation confirmed that we would have paid about €17,000 (about $18,300) in total.
Still, I was glad to refuse because we included the commission in our financing and would have had no proof of payment.
Now here’s the strange part:
We have just received an invoice for the full €20,000 (about $21,500), which states that no VAT is due due to the small business regulation (Kleinunternehmerregelung).
This confuses me a lot. If he doesn’t have to charge VAT, how could he make the previous offer?
The company looks well-established, offers many services, and according to the website has been around for 20 years. (In theory, it could still be possible that he qualifies as a small business under VAT rules.)
I don’t understand any of this.
At the same time, he seems to be a very close friend of the owner, and we don’t want to upset him since we haven’t taken possession of the house yet.
The payment deadline on the invoice is the day after tomorrow.
I would appreciate any advice.
Best regards
Nina343434 schrieb:
He wanted a commission confirmation from us in mid-December. We were supposed to write “broker commission 7% including taxes” on it.
We found a template, entered the property and sent it to him . That’s almost professionally shady ;-)
fach1werk schrieb:
I really can’t imagine how a real estate license and the small business regulation would fit together. For some strugglers, it “pays off”: deregister the old company, start anew as a limited liability company. Some brokers do no better in real life than private detectives on TV.
Tassimat schrieb:
First, ask for their real estate license according to Section 34c of the Trade Regulation Act. I haven’t seen anyone for years with a 34 license (whether c or f) who doesn’t have their license number at least partially on their business cards, usually in their email disclaimers and basically always on their letterheads.
Snowy36 schrieb:
What he’s doing is extremely bold and unfortunately drags the honest players in this business through the mud. Seriously, you’re worried about that one last percent? — that’s cute.
Zubi123 schrieb:
For one case per year (previously up to 17,500 euros, now 22,000 euros), he runs it under himself as a natural person. Are you sure you can use one license simultaneously for a company and as a sole proprietor?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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HilfeHilfe8 Jan 2021 06:16He is getting a commission, you confirmed it, now pay.
I know many self-employed people. Many focus more on tax optimization than on their actual business. For them, it’s like a sport; sometimes people even toast more enthusiastically and quickly during a barbecue. But they have the advantage that a thorough tax audit only happens retrospectively every 5-7 years.
But it’s no different for employees. Which of you will declare working from home and who will continue to commute to the company? ^^
I know many self-employed people. Many focus more on tax optimization than on their actual business. For them, it’s like a sport; sometimes people even toast more enthusiastically and quickly during a barbecue. But they have the advantage that a thorough tax audit only happens retrospectively every 5-7 years.
But it’s no different for employees. Which of you will declare working from home and who will continue to commute to the company? ^^
That’s often how it goes. Who really likes paying taxes? Everyone bends the truth a bit somewhere. Just think about how many musicians, photographers, all-around tradespeople, and so on, just happen to stay under the threshold of €22,000 (up to 2020 it was €17,500) to avoid having to include VAT on their invoices. It makes you wonder, right? 😉
It’s the same when renovating existing buildings. For smaller jobs, many contractors first ask whether an invoice is actually needed or if a different arrangement can be made.
It’s the same when renovating existing buildings. For smaller jobs, many contractors first ask whether an invoice is actually needed or if a different arrangement can be made.
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HilfeHilfe8 Jan 2021 08:06Wiesel29 schrieb:
Yes, that's often how it is. Who really likes paying taxes? Everyone bends the truth a little somewhere. Just think about how many musicians, photographers, versatile tradespeople, etc., stay just under that threshold of 22,000€ (about 24,000 USD) until 2020 it was 17,500€ (about 19,000 USD) so they don’t have to include VAT on their invoices. Suspicious minds might think otherwise 😉
It’s the same with renovating existing buildings. For smaller jobs, many tradespeople first ask if a receipt is necessary or if the customer is okay with an informal deal.Exactly, the whole hospitality sector is the same. They’re laughing all the way. They get 75% support from government, put people on short-time work, and sell their goods without receipts for takeout.
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chand19868 Jan 2021 08:17HilfeHilfe schrieb:
Of course, the whole restaurant crowd too. They’re laughing their heads off. They get 75% from the government, put employees on short-time work, and sell their goods without receipts as takeout.And because this works so well, they then go bankrupt. Simply because they enjoy it. Fantastic concept.H
HilfeHilfe8 Jan 2021 08:54chand1986 schrieb:
And because that works so well, they then go bankrupt. Simply because it's fun. Fantastic concept.Who says that? Here in the region, no one has gone under. They are all really happy. November, December, and January, they receive about 75% of the previous year's sales and reduce fixed costs (no staff, no energy, no material usage). I don’t need to calculate much to see that it works out.
If anyone goes bankrupt, it’s only because they didn’t file the applications correctly.