ᐅ City or countryside, new construction or renovation – the challenge of choosing!?
Created on: 2 Aug 2020 16:25
D
dankosos
Hello everyone,
I already started a thread in the financing section to estimate a possible loan range. Now we have roughly outlined that and are considering the options available to us.
Here’s a luxury problem:
We currently own two plots of land with rental properties on them. One is in the middle of the city (a 100 sqm (1,076 sq ft) terraced townhouse with a small garden directly on a main road), and the other about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city (a small detached single-family home, on nearly 1,000 sqm (10,764 sq ft) of land, in a quiet location). Additionally, we have €300,000 (including support from relatives) in cash equity plus around €50,000 set aside as a buffer for unexpected expenses in everyday life or on the houses, and a solid income that comfortably supports a loan of about €500,000 (more details in the financing thread).
We are now considering two options for our own home (goal: around 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) living space for 2 adults, 2 children, home office, and regular visitors):
Option A) We build the house about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city by expanding, renovating, or starting new. There is no longer a formal development plan there, but the neighborhood is quite mixed, and we are pretty sure we could create something we really like without rush. Another plus: With our equity, we’d only need a comparatively small loan (somewhere between €150,000 and at most €300,000) and would either be debt-free within 10-15 years (in our early/mid-40s) or have a long period of relatively low payments compared to our income. The village is quite sought-after, so we would also likely be able to sell the house well, if needed.
The biggest disadvantage is the location. I don’t work in the nearby city but commute around 250 km (155 miles) per office day, 240 km (149 miles) of that by high-speed train. It’s not a big deal as the train time is working time, and I was already able to work 2, sometimes 3 days from home before COVID, with the city station only 1.5 km (1 mile) away. However, if we moved to the village, the one-way distance to the station would be 8 km (5 miles), and the return trip is quite uphill. It’s certainly doable (I am quite fit cycling and would even welcome a somewhat longer bike ride than at present), especially if I can permanently work three days from home. But in everyday life with kids, it might not be so practical—for example, if my wife can’t leave work, I would easily need 1.5 hours at best to commute. Also, we would lose rental income from here (including terminating a tenancy by a tenant who has lived there since 1975—we aren’t in a hurry, but it just feels unpleasant...) and probably have underestimated the investment required. Therefore…
Option B) We buy an existing property in the city and renovate or expand it. The big, big downside here is the typically inflated and still very competitive property market. It will probably take years to find something, and when you do, you basically have to decide at the first viewing—which is quite stressful for us cautious people. Due to the high purchase price (with additional costs around €550,000 minimum, so a new build is off the table), we would likely have to make many compromises during the renovation based on what I have seen in similar projects.
But we could stay in the city, would only need one car, no monthly passes for the kids, etc.—which is a considerable advantage compared to the loan repayment—and overall, we would probably have more free time since we wouldn’t have to constantly drive the children to sports and other activities.
At the same time, one could argue a third option C): if we choose A, we could sell the property with the house there later and use the proceeds for option B. Then we could probably do everything in the city according to our wishes—and the final situation would be the same: instead of owning two rental homes, we would only have one, but in addition, a valuable house in the city. The only remaining problem would be finding a plot without unpleasant surprises…
Of course, I know this is ultimately our decision to make – but how would you approach it? Has anyone been in the same situation? Neither of us has ever lived in the countryside; what hidden costs might come up there that you wouldn’t have in the city?
I already started a thread in the financing section to estimate a possible loan range. Now we have roughly outlined that and are considering the options available to us.
Here’s a luxury problem:
We currently own two plots of land with rental properties on them. One is in the middle of the city (a 100 sqm (1,076 sq ft) terraced townhouse with a small garden directly on a main road), and the other about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city (a small detached single-family home, on nearly 1,000 sqm (10,764 sq ft) of land, in a quiet location). Additionally, we have €300,000 (including support from relatives) in cash equity plus around €50,000 set aside as a buffer for unexpected expenses in everyday life or on the houses, and a solid income that comfortably supports a loan of about €500,000 (more details in the financing thread).
We are now considering two options for our own home (goal: around 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) living space for 2 adults, 2 children, home office, and regular visitors):
Option A) We build the house about 5 km (3 miles) outside the city by expanding, renovating, or starting new. There is no longer a formal development plan there, but the neighborhood is quite mixed, and we are pretty sure we could create something we really like without rush. Another plus: With our equity, we’d only need a comparatively small loan (somewhere between €150,000 and at most €300,000) and would either be debt-free within 10-15 years (in our early/mid-40s) or have a long period of relatively low payments compared to our income. The village is quite sought-after, so we would also likely be able to sell the house well, if needed.
The biggest disadvantage is the location. I don’t work in the nearby city but commute around 250 km (155 miles) per office day, 240 km (149 miles) of that by high-speed train. It’s not a big deal as the train time is working time, and I was already able to work 2, sometimes 3 days from home before COVID, with the city station only 1.5 km (1 mile) away. However, if we moved to the village, the one-way distance to the station would be 8 km (5 miles), and the return trip is quite uphill. It’s certainly doable (I am quite fit cycling and would even welcome a somewhat longer bike ride than at present), especially if I can permanently work three days from home. But in everyday life with kids, it might not be so practical—for example, if my wife can’t leave work, I would easily need 1.5 hours at best to commute. Also, we would lose rental income from here (including terminating a tenancy by a tenant who has lived there since 1975—we aren’t in a hurry, but it just feels unpleasant...) and probably have underestimated the investment required. Therefore…
Option B) We buy an existing property in the city and renovate or expand it. The big, big downside here is the typically inflated and still very competitive property market. It will probably take years to find something, and when you do, you basically have to decide at the first viewing—which is quite stressful for us cautious people. Due to the high purchase price (with additional costs around €550,000 minimum, so a new build is off the table), we would likely have to make many compromises during the renovation based on what I have seen in similar projects.
But we could stay in the city, would only need one car, no monthly passes for the kids, etc.—which is a considerable advantage compared to the loan repayment—and overall, we would probably have more free time since we wouldn’t have to constantly drive the children to sports and other activities.
At the same time, one could argue a third option C): if we choose A, we could sell the property with the house there later and use the proceeds for option B. Then we could probably do everything in the city according to our wishes—and the final situation would be the same: instead of owning two rental homes, we would only have one, but in addition, a valuable house in the city. The only remaining problem would be finding a plot without unpleasant surprises…
Of course, I know this is ultimately our decision to make – but how would you approach it? Has anyone been in the same situation? Neither of us has ever lived in the countryside; what hidden costs might come up there that you wouldn’t have in the city?
P
pagoni20204 Aug 2020 10:21Climbee schrieb:
I want to disagree with the argument that you always have to be on the road by car. My experience shows me that the argument about needing a car usually doesn’t hold true, and the shops people like to visit aren’t exactly nearby either, so you end up back in the car anyway—but then stuck in city traffic with parking problems.
And... there is a big difference between rural living and rural living. When looked at in detail, some rural residents actually have significantly better infrastructure available than some city dwellers. Because of various options, your preferred bakery might be in district A, the butcher in district B, and the department store in district C.
If you really want to enjoy the benefits of a nearby infrastructure, you would have to live in a shopping center.
We now live in the countryside but often visit the city, and I can’t see any real differences in household supplies.
Living in the countryside in Germany is still very different from living in the countryside in the USA or Canada. Here, you are almost everywhere connected properly within a few minutes; but of course, you don’t have to move there.
I keep seeing a lot of black-and-white thinking, as if the city is always good and the countryside is always bad. But it’s not like that.
We hardly need a car without work.
Someone wrote that it only takes 30 minutes to get to the city center.
Just for comparison: 15–20 minutes covers four smaller towns with fewer than 50,000 residents, while 35 minutes gets you to a parking garage downtown in a city with over 200,000 people—without rush hour traffic or highway congestion.
I would look at the village itself, what there is, what’s on the way to work, and where you need to travel.
How do you want to live? The only relatively predictable option is the village; you might still look for a place in the city in a few years. Would that be acceptable, and what compromises would you be willing to make?
Where are family and friends?
Would it be a problem if you could no longer get decent sushi delivered from your favorite Japanese restaurant, but only rarely enjoy it there?
I really missed good sushi. What is offered here as sushi is hardly worth mentioning.
What about work, if you want to change jobs?
Someone wrote that it only takes 30 minutes to get to the city center.
Just for comparison: 15–20 minutes covers four smaller towns with fewer than 50,000 residents, while 35 minutes gets you to a parking garage downtown in a city with over 200,000 people—without rush hour traffic or highway congestion.
I would look at the village itself, what there is, what’s on the way to work, and where you need to travel.
How do you want to live? The only relatively predictable option is the village; you might still look for a place in the city in a few years. Would that be acceptable, and what compromises would you be willing to make?
Where are family and friends?
Would it be a problem if you could no longer get decent sushi delivered from your favorite Japanese restaurant, but only rarely enjoy it there?
I really missed good sushi. What is offered here as sushi is hardly worth mentioning.
What about work, if you want to change jobs?
I don’t live on the outskirts of Frankfurt, yet it still takes me easily 30 minutes to get to the city center by car or public transport. Soon, I will have a shopping mall almost next door, so I can shop at the same chains faster, even though I no longer live in the city.
Sushi: I usually make it myself. It works great with trout or char, which I get fresh from the fish farm in the neighboring village (they also supply Dallmayr in Munich, but there you pay more for the fish *grin*).
If I want salmon or tuna for my sushi, I go to another village where there is a fishmonger (yes, even here in the Upper Bavarian countryside!) who also sells saltwater fish.
And in yet another nearby village, there is another trout farm.
All of these are within a few minutes by bike.
I make good maki rolls, my husband makes the nigiri.
And recently, even our regular grocery store has a sushi bar where you can get surprisingly decent sushi to take away.
Since my brother and sister-in-law are also sushi addicts, we usually have a family sushi-making event. Making sushi together at my large kitchen island is always fun.
If I want salmon or tuna for my sushi, I go to another village where there is a fishmonger (yes, even here in the Upper Bavarian countryside!) who also sells saltwater fish.
And in yet another nearby village, there is another trout farm.
All of these are within a few minutes by bike.
I make good maki rolls, my husband makes the nigiri.
And recently, even our regular grocery store has a sushi bar where you can get surprisingly decent sushi to take away.
Since my brother and sister-in-law are also sushi addicts, we usually have a family sushi-making event. Making sushi together at my large kitchen island is always fun.
Climbee schrieb:
As I said: there are weeks when we have enough at home and don’t go into the city at all. Since the beginning of March, during the COVID period, we have refueled our cars maybe twice. Same here. Two years ago, when we lived in the city apartment, it was still 25,000 to 30,000 km (15,500 to 18,600 miles) per year. Since March, we are on the second tank of fuel now... apart from the weekly big shopping trip (which also includes the hardware store and drugstores), and two visits to the old office, everything else has been done from home or purchased locally. You can get used to it D And then the Prime subscription takes care of the rest.
Doing it yourself doesn’t mean the same thing to me in this case. Something is missing. Society, and so on.
It was simply an example to consider small details that make a city or countryside worth living in and that are missing when making a big change. If, in the end, many such small things—and maybe not even rational ones—are missing, you won’t be happy.
Life changes. I moved from the village to the city and back again. Each time there were reasons, and they were not necessarily rational. But at the time, they felt right.
It was simply an example to consider small details that make a city or countryside worth living in and that are missing when making a big change. If, in the end, many such small things—and maybe not even rational ones—are missing, you won’t be happy.
Life changes. I moved from the village to the city and back again. Each time there were reasons, and they were not necessarily rational. But at the time, they felt right.