For those considering installing a heat pump in an older building.
In spring 2023, Panasonic will launch a high-temperature heat pump that can still deliver a flow temperature of 75°C (167°F) at an outdoor temperature of -10°C (14°F). A maximum SCOP of 5.2 is stated. This presents an alternative to oil and gas heating systems without the need to switch immediately to underfloor heating and/or additional insulation.
More detailed information about the Aquarea L is not yet available and will be provided later.
In spring 2023, Panasonic will launch a high-temperature heat pump that can still deliver a flow temperature of 75°C (167°F) at an outdoor temperature of -10°C (14°F). A maximum SCOP of 5.2 is stated. This presents an alternative to oil and gas heating systems without the need to switch immediately to underfloor heating and/or additional insulation.
More detailed information about the Aquarea L is not yet available and will be provided later.
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Grolsch3024 Nov 2022 13:24This week, air-to-air HVAC units are being installed at my place: seven indoor units for the bedrooms, kitchen, living room, and office, connected to three outdoor units—one single unit, one double, and one four-split system.
Originally, I planned it just for cooling in summer since I have completely switched to radiant heating (ceiling and walls). Only afterwards did I realize that it can also be used for heating! I will switch my oil heating to summer mode, so it will only provide hot water until the oil heating is replaced by an air-source heat pump. Photovoltaic panels are also planned to reduce electricity costs.
Originally, I planned it just for cooling in summer since I have completely switched to radiant heating (ceiling and walls). Only afterwards did I realize that it can also be used for heating! I will switch my oil heating to summer mode, so it will only provide hot water until the oil heating is replaced by an air-source heat pump. Photovoltaic panels are also planned to reduce electricity costs.
Nutshell schrieb:
Why not simply use air-to-air instead of running inefficient radiators with high supply water temperatures?I would assume it comes down to effort. After all, radiators are already installed in every room...T
Torti2022neu24 Nov 2022 15:37How efficient is an air-to-air system supposed to be when it already causes partly exorbitant electricity costs in new buildings? Regardless of the fact that a completely new heating infrastructure has to be installed instead of simply replacing the heat generator (and ideally also the radiators).
Torti2022neu schrieb:
How effective can an air-to-air solution really be, when it already causes sometimes exorbitant electricity costs in new buildings? Regardless of the fact that a completely new heating infrastructure has to be installed instead of simply replacing the heat generator (and ideally also the radiators).I’m currently experiencing that air-to-air via multi-split air conditioning is cheaper than my gas condensing boiler with underfloor heating.X
xMisterDx25 Nov 2022 00:49Only for people who have extra money and enjoy new technology.
Even if the gas price stabilizes at 15 cents/kWh and electricity drops to 30 cents, and you aim for a coefficient of performance (COP) of 3, I would be very surprised. With a flow temperature of 50°C (122°F) and underfloor heating, an air-to-water heat pump can hardly achieve more. Unfortunately, physics cannot be outsmarted, not even by Panasonic.
The €20,000 (about $22,000) additional cost for a high-temperature heat pump has to be saved again first. With a factor of 2 and the prices mentioned above, that will never happen. With a factor of 3, you pay 15 cents/kWh more for heat from gas... but for €20,000 I can buy 133,000 kWh more energy. By the time I have saved that amount, the high-temperature heat pump is already worn out...
Even if the gas price stabilizes at 15 cents/kWh and electricity drops to 30 cents, and you aim for a coefficient of performance (COP) of 3, I would be very surprised. With a flow temperature of 50°C (122°F) and underfloor heating, an air-to-water heat pump can hardly achieve more. Unfortunately, physics cannot be outsmarted, not even by Panasonic.
The €20,000 (about $22,000) additional cost for a high-temperature heat pump has to be saved again first. With a factor of 2 and the prices mentioned above, that will never happen. With a factor of 3, you pay 15 cents/kWh more for heat from gas... but for €20,000 I can buy 133,000 kWh more energy. By the time I have saved that amount, the high-temperature heat pump is already worn out...
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Alessandro25 Nov 2022 08:29Air-to-air heat pumps (ductless split systems) are definitely the future for new buildings! At an efficiency standard like EFH40, no one really needs a traditional heat pump.
Ductless split systems can also provide effective cooling in summer. No more complex hydraulics with pumps, buffers, etc., which means more space in the utility room, much lower costs, and greater comfort (since you can also run an effective ventilation system with heat recovery).
If I were building a new house, I would only install an air-to-air heat pump. I would use on-demand water heaters for domestic hot water.
If only these units weren’t so ugly :p
Ductless split systems can also provide effective cooling in summer. No more complex hydraulics with pumps, buffers, etc., which means more space in the utility room, much lower costs, and greater comfort (since you can also run an effective ventilation system with heat recovery).
If I were building a new house, I would only install an air-to-air heat pump. I would use on-demand water heaters for domestic hot water.
If only these units weren’t so ugly :p
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