Hello Forum!
We hired two different companies for building a carport: Company A was responsible for the foundations, and Company B for the carport itself.
It started with Company A not installing the foundations according to the plan. They were positioned so far outward that the base plates could only be half mounted.
This only became apparent when the installers from Company B arrived on site. For the installation delay, Company B wanted to charge for 2–3 hours of labor.
After calling on the same day, Company A came the next day and extended the foundations in the correct direction. This involved excavating the ground, chamfering the old foundation, and filling the new foundation with fast-setting concrete.
However, Company A requested an additional payment X for this and “as a gesture of goodwill” reduced it to 50%.
One day later, Company B sent an invoice that was much higher than expected. They charged for 6 hours of labor instead of the verbally indicated 3 hours per installer, plus a flat fee of €3 per kilometer (including tax) for travel to and from the site.
This amount was immediately communicated to Company A. Their response was only regret and the information that they no longer have professional liability insurance that could cover this.
We are slowly getting desperate and don’t know what to do.
Does anyone have advice on who is actually responsible for which payments and who we should contact?
Many thanks!
We hired two different companies for building a carport: Company A was responsible for the foundations, and Company B for the carport itself.
It started with Company A not installing the foundations according to the plan. They were positioned so far outward that the base plates could only be half mounted.
This only became apparent when the installers from Company B arrived on site. For the installation delay, Company B wanted to charge for 2–3 hours of labor.
After calling on the same day, Company A came the next day and extended the foundations in the correct direction. This involved excavating the ground, chamfering the old foundation, and filling the new foundation with fast-setting concrete.
However, Company A requested an additional payment X for this and “as a gesture of goodwill” reduced it to 50%.
One day later, Company B sent an invoice that was much higher than expected. They charged for 6 hours of labor instead of the verbally indicated 3 hours per installer, plus a flat fee of €3 per kilometer (including tax) for travel to and from the site.
This amount was immediately communicated to Company A. Their response was only regret and the information that they no longer have professional liability insurance that could cover this.
We are slowly getting desperate and don’t know what to do.
Does anyone have advice on who is actually responsible for which payments and who we should contact?
Many thanks!
H
HilfeHilfe10 Nov 2023 05:31Hello,
What amounts are we talking about now for B and A that need to be paid extra?
If A doesn't have liability insurance, I wouldn't pay anything at least for now and wait to see what happens. But hopefully, they don't come at us too aggressively.
What amounts are we talking about now for B and A that need to be paid extra?
If A doesn't have liability insurance, I wouldn't pay anything at least for now and wait to see what happens. But hopefully, they don't come at us too aggressively.
M
meinhaus202010 Nov 2023 06:36xMisterDx schrieb:
Company B charges 6 hours per installer just to find out that the foundations are not correct?
Sorry, but the very first thing the foreman does after getting out of the car is to measure the foundations. Then he knows whether he can build the carport or not.
If they decide to try it anyway, that’s their problem, not yours. The carport builders are the experts and must be able to assess whether it makes sense or not. If it doesn’t, it’s shoddy work—just like with contractor A—and you don’t have to pay for it.
Whether it’s worth getting anything from company A… maybe in a few years, but until then you’ll have to manage without a carport and pre-finance your lawyer. If company A decides to file for bankruptcy in the meantime, the money is gone, including the money for the lawyer.
Did you measure the carport dimensions yourself?
Tip for next time: after work is completed, measure yourself roughly to check if it’s correct—down to the centimeter (not millimeter).
I also trusted my excavation contractor and now have leaking drainage pipes underground...
Never trust a tradesperson blindly... Company B came, measured, called, said the foundations don’t fit, and left again.
The round trip was just over 100km (62 miles).
The 6 hours were given as the total time for travel, on-site inspection, unloading materials, and reloading for the next trip.
And yes, I’m very annoyed afterward for not checking whether the foundations were laid according to the foundation plan.
M
meinhaus202010 Nov 2023 06:45HilfeHilfe schrieb:
Hello,
what amounts are we talking about now that need to be paid extra for B and A?
If A has no liability insurance, I would at least not pay anything there and wait to see what happens. But hopefully they don't come at us hard^^For A, it is €350 (about 50% of the standard rate for new foundations), and for B, €1000 (roughly 11% of the estimated total cost for the carport).
Point out to A that an agreed service (constructing the foundation according to the plan) was not fully completed and that the requested correction was only necessary due to A’s mistakes, so you will not pay anything further in this regard.
Regarding B: I now understand why I avoid hiring tradespeople whenever possible. This is not directed at "B" personally, but generally, this practice might be necessary for the company; however, for the average customer who ends up paying 1000€ for “nothing,” it is simply unfair.
I would follow up with B about the billed hours and ask why two workers each needed at least 4 hours to unload and reload a carport. (I assume 2 hours for travel and time on site for the phone call.) Always remain polite and professional—you still need them.
Regarding B: I now understand why I avoid hiring tradespeople whenever possible. This is not directed at "B" personally, but generally, this practice might be necessary for the company; however, for the average customer who ends up paying 1000€ for “nothing,” it is simply unfair.
I would follow up with B about the billed hours and ask why two workers each needed at least 4 hours to unload and reload a carport. (I assume 2 hours for travel and time on site for the phone call.) Always remain polite and professional—you still need them.
W
WilderSueden10 Nov 2023 09:14I don’t understand the issue with the 6 hours. The company scheduled the appointment for that day and then couldn’t work. Going spontaneously to another construction site isn’t possible; that also needs to be prepared and announced in advance. The damage isn’t the two hours spent in the car, but a full day of lost work. And such installation teams rarely have workshop tasks they can complete on these days.
Liability with personal assets applies only depending on the company’s legal form. Most operate as a limited liability company (LLC or GmbH), where liability is limited accordingly. That’s why the question about insolvency comes up—if the LLC is insolvent, suing is pointless.
Liability also covers consequential damages. The company will, of course, try to minimize these, so it’s crucial that you have equal footing in these discussions.
meinhaus2020 schrieb:
So, the company is liable with its personal assets because no insurance can cover this?
But is that only regarding the correct construction of the foundations, or also for the additional costs incurred beyond that?
Liability with personal assets applies only depending on the company’s legal form. Most operate as a limited liability company (LLC or GmbH), where liability is limited accordingly. That’s why the question about insolvency comes up—if the LLC is insolvent, suing is pointless.
Liability also covers consequential damages. The company will, of course, try to minimize these, so it’s crucial that you have equal footing in these discussions.
M
meinhaus202010 Nov 2023 09:21WilderSueden schrieb:
I don’t understand what issue you have with the 6 hours. The company scheduled the appointment for that day but then couldn’t work. It’s not possible to just spontaneously drive to another construction site; that also needs to be prepared and announced. The loss isn’t the two hours spent in the car, but an entire workday. And such installation teams rarely have workshop tasks they can do on days like that.
Liability with personal assets only applies with a corresponding legal structure. Most operate as an LLC, which limits liability accordingly. That’s why the question about insolvency comes up—if an LLC is insolvent, you can save yourself the lawsuit.
Liability also extends to consequential damages. The company will naturally try to minimize these as much as possible, so you definitely need an equal footing. The thing is: one of the installers owns Company B, so I expected the verbal agreement of 3 hours. Suddenly charging double is not clear to me.
Also, the costs were not known in advance, neither flat rates nor anything else.