Hello everyone!
I have a question about a creaking and cracking wooden beam ceiling. Unfortunately, I am a complete layperson, but I am trying to describe the problem as clearly as possible.
We bought a house a few months ago, built in the late 1970s. There is a wooden beam ceiling between the ground floor and the upper floor. The previous owner had carpet on the upper floor, and underneath were apparently chipboard panels fixed directly to the beams. When walking on the upper floor, you could hear creaking with almost every 2nd or 3rd step, which bothered us a lot. So, we hired a craftsman to find a solution. He supposedly fixed the chipboard with over 1000 screws, then installed screed element panels with impact sound insulation (Fermacell with mineral wool), a sound reduction layer (parquet underlay 5mm (0.2 inches)), and a leveling compound. On top of that came the floor covering and vinyl flooring (PVC design flooring), which was glued down.
Here is the current situation:
1.) It no longer creaks with every step. However, after several hours without anyone being on the upper floor (especially after the night), it creaks very loudly in some rooms, but only once at each spot. Apparently, something is being compressed by weight. When walking on the floor again afterward, it creaks no more. But after a while without load, the creaking returns. This seems to depend on the weather, since this phenomenon has not been observed on very warm days.
2.) Even worse is another issue: about 2 ½ months after the floor was installed, loud cracking started. This began around the end of March. Even when nobody is upstairs, it cracks. Sometimes quieter, but often very loudly, as if the floor is under tension and something is loosening (we hear it in the bedroom on the ground floor). This noise is loud enough to have woken us up several times at night, which is very stressful. This problem does not always occur. Possibly this too is related to weather or wind, but we have not been able to determine this yet.
For better understanding, here are some details:
We wondered why the problem did not occur for 2 ½ months. During that time, our attic was insulated and is now significantly heavier. There are two non-load-bearing wooden frame walls on the upper floor. It is possible that the attic’s weight is pressing on these walls, which transmit the pressure, causing the creaking that we hear on the ground floor. Therefore, two temporary supports were installed upstairs (between the upper floor and attic). The noise, however, continues.
Additionally, the baseboards were glued to the walls. This modification was done shortly before the cracking started, although I can’t imagine it is related.
It is also possible that something is too heavy (attic or upper floor), as a concrete floor (or at least a concrete layer) on the upper floor was rejected by the structural engineer.
Another idea proposed by the craftsman was moisture remaining in the floor causing the creaking, as several liters of water were used (all rooms were repainted, wallpapered, and then the leveling compounds for the floor were applied). We have since used a room dehumidifier for a week, but without the desired result.
Although this is quite a lengthy description, I hope I have made the problem clear.
So now my questions:
Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this?
How can we narrow down the issue?
And most importantly, how can it be resolved?
I would be very grateful for any suggestions and tips!
Thank you very much in advance for your support!
I have a question about a creaking and cracking wooden beam ceiling. Unfortunately, I am a complete layperson, but I am trying to describe the problem as clearly as possible.
We bought a house a few months ago, built in the late 1970s. There is a wooden beam ceiling between the ground floor and the upper floor. The previous owner had carpet on the upper floor, and underneath were apparently chipboard panels fixed directly to the beams. When walking on the upper floor, you could hear creaking with almost every 2nd or 3rd step, which bothered us a lot. So, we hired a craftsman to find a solution. He supposedly fixed the chipboard with over 1000 screws, then installed screed element panels with impact sound insulation (Fermacell with mineral wool), a sound reduction layer (parquet underlay 5mm (0.2 inches)), and a leveling compound. On top of that came the floor covering and vinyl flooring (PVC design flooring), which was glued down.
Here is the current situation:
1.) It no longer creaks with every step. However, after several hours without anyone being on the upper floor (especially after the night), it creaks very loudly in some rooms, but only once at each spot. Apparently, something is being compressed by weight. When walking on the floor again afterward, it creaks no more. But after a while without load, the creaking returns. This seems to depend on the weather, since this phenomenon has not been observed on very warm days.
2.) Even worse is another issue: about 2 ½ months after the floor was installed, loud cracking started. This began around the end of March. Even when nobody is upstairs, it cracks. Sometimes quieter, but often very loudly, as if the floor is under tension and something is loosening (we hear it in the bedroom on the ground floor). This noise is loud enough to have woken us up several times at night, which is very stressful. This problem does not always occur. Possibly this too is related to weather or wind, but we have not been able to determine this yet.
For better understanding, here are some details:
We wondered why the problem did not occur for 2 ½ months. During that time, our attic was insulated and is now significantly heavier. There are two non-load-bearing wooden frame walls on the upper floor. It is possible that the attic’s weight is pressing on these walls, which transmit the pressure, causing the creaking that we hear on the ground floor. Therefore, two temporary supports were installed upstairs (between the upper floor and attic). The noise, however, continues.
Additionally, the baseboards were glued to the walls. This modification was done shortly before the cracking started, although I can’t imagine it is related.
It is also possible that something is too heavy (attic or upper floor), as a concrete floor (or at least a concrete layer) on the upper floor was rejected by the structural engineer.
Another idea proposed by the craftsman was moisture remaining in the floor causing the creaking, as several liters of water were used (all rooms were repainted, wallpapered, and then the leveling compounds for the floor were applied). We have since used a room dehumidifier for a week, but without the desired result.
Although this is quite a lengthy description, I hope I have made the problem clear.
So now my questions:
Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this?
How can we narrow down the issue?
And most importantly, how can it be resolved?
I would be very grateful for any suggestions and tips!
Thank you very much in advance for your support!
H
HilfeHilfe23 May 2016 14:49buhuwuhu.............. house ghost??
C
Caspar202023 May 2016 15:09HilfeHilfe schrieb:
buhuwuhu.............. house ghost ??No, just kidding.
@dotwin: What does your "tradesperson" say?
Generally speaking, wood expands and contracts. And too many screws or reinforcements prevent the wood from doing so:
dotwin schrieb:
He supposedly fastened the chipboard panels with over 1000 screwsEspecially since temperature and humidity are not constant throughout the year.
Let's hope it doesn’t all have to be removed again. That sounds like a lot of weight:
dotwin schrieb:
He supposedly fastened the chipboard panels with over 1000 screws, then added screed element panels with impact sound insulation (Fermacell with mineral wool), an impact sound barrier (5mm (0.2 inch) underlayment for parquet), and a leveling compound. On top of that came a layer of floor covering and vinyl flooring (a design covering, so PVC), which was glued down.Did the structural engineer approve the above-mentioned construction?
dotwin schrieb:
It is possible that something is too heavy (attic or upper floor), since a concrete floor (or at least a concrete layer) on the upper floor was rejected by the structural engineer.dotwin schrieb:
Another idea from the tradesperson was moisture remaining in the floor causing the creaking, because several liters of water were used (all rooms were newly wallpapered, painted, and then the leveling layers for the floor were applied). Therefore, we have connected a room ventilator for a week now, but the desired result has not yet been achieved.What did the moisture measurement show before and after this measure?
Thank you for your reply.
No moisture measurement was taken, and the structural engineer has not commented on the current construction.
We had previously obtained numerous opinions and received almost as many different recommendations: from using as many screws as possible, to screwing them in at an angle, to not using any screws at all.
I have also heard that the whole structure needs time to settle first (since the weight is now different and presses on the joists, and because the moisture needs to evaporate), but I’m not really convinced that it will fix itself. Besides, I’m not very patient when it comes to waiting...
What would be a sensible next step to move closer to a solution? And in an extreme case—if everything is done correctly but the assembly is too heavy—how can the situation be resolved so that it no longer creaks (on its own) or groans (when walking on it)? If necessary, I am willing to have supports installed on the ground floor if that helps...
No moisture measurement was taken, and the structural engineer has not commented on the current construction.
We had previously obtained numerous opinions and received almost as many different recommendations: from using as many screws as possible, to screwing them in at an angle, to not using any screws at all.
I have also heard that the whole structure needs time to settle first (since the weight is now different and presses on the joists, and because the moisture needs to evaporate), but I’m not really convinced that it will fix itself. Besides, I’m not very patient when it comes to waiting...
What would be a sensible next step to move closer to a solution? And in an extreme case—if everything is done correctly but the assembly is too heavy—how can the situation be resolved so that it no longer creaks (on its own) or groans (when walking on it)? If necessary, I am willing to have supports installed on the ground floor if that helps...
Our house has a timber frame construction on the upper floor, and at first it creaked quite a lot, even though the load was actually fine. We have a concrete ceiling, with the timber structure and roof on top. We also added some extra weight, for example, gypsum fiberboard panels on all the walls and ceilings. The facade was also re-clad and reinforced at the same time with 22 cm (9 inches) long screws. It moved quite a bit during this process; when screwing in, the facade shifted about 2 cm (0.8 inches) closer to the wooden beams. An entire corner room was extended except for the six load-bearing beams, allowing direct access to the outside, and the exterior walls were removed and completely rebuilt. The windows were also replaced and properly anchored. Since then, it barely creaks at all.
Before that, the facade groaned with every gust of wind. What 22 cm (9 inches) screws can do!
One thing to watch out for is that the non-load-bearing timber walls do not carry any load from above. In our case, these walls do not extend all the way up, so there is a gap (hidden by the fiberboard panels). Also, the supports must not transfer weight down to non-load-bearing walls on the floor below.
We also have squeaking in the basement floor, but that is a concrete ceiling with 8 cm (3 inches) of insulation on top, followed by OSB panels. These creak because, despite all efforts, the floor was not completely level, and the tongue-and-groove panels bend slightly when walked on. It sounds like stepping on an old wooden ship. So, small unevenness can also cause this.
Before that, the facade groaned with every gust of wind. What 22 cm (9 inches) screws can do!
One thing to watch out for is that the non-load-bearing timber walls do not carry any load from above. In our case, these walls do not extend all the way up, so there is a gap (hidden by the fiberboard panels). Also, the supports must not transfer weight down to non-load-bearing walls on the floor below.
We also have squeaking in the basement floor, but that is a concrete ceiling with 8 cm (3 inches) of insulation on top, followed by OSB panels. These creak because, despite all efforts, the floor was not completely level, and the tongue-and-groove panels bend slightly when walked on. It sounds like stepping on an old wooden ship. So, small unevenness can also cause this.
C
Caspar202023 May 2016 15:38And how do you determine that there is less moisture present now? Also, how much moisture does it actually remove per day? And is the house insulated well enough so that you are not only dehumidifying the normally incoming air?
Consulting an expert/structural engineer? Especially because
If the build-up is too heavy, you have—or will get—other problems apart from just "crack" sounds.
dotwin schrieb:
What would be a sensible next step to get closer to a solution?
Consulting an expert/structural engineer? Especially because
dotwin schrieb:
a concrete floor (or at least a concrete layer) on the upper floor was rejected by the structural engineer.
dotwin schrieb:
There was no moisture measurement, and the structural engineer has not commented on the current construction.
dotwin schrieb:
And in an extreme case—everything done correctly but the build-up is too heavy—how can the situation be solved so that it no longer cracks (by itself) or creaks (when walking on it)? If necessary, I’m willing to have supports installed on the ground floor if that would help...
If the build-up is too heavy, you have—or will get—other problems apart from just "crack" sounds.
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